ATIS or not an ATIS

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Mal113

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Having read the ICOM advert behind the front cover of the July issue of PBO, I understood I might need an ATIS number to sail on the inland waterways of The Netherlands, checking the OFCOM site proved this to be correct. I therefore applied on-line for an ATIS number and had a return e-mail in hours with the number (which is a 9 prefixing my MMSI number) and the appropriate licence document and a cover letter explaining the uses of ATIS and the fact that my details i.e. my name, ship name, MMSI and call sign would be notified to the Belgium Authorities so they would have a record of the ATIS user.

This was all well and good so far and then I read that the ATIS number must not be transmitted within 14 miles of the UK coast! So if you readers like me have a radio that will accept ATIS you can safely sail within European inland waters but you cannot return to the UK waters and transmit the ATIS and if like me your radio does not allow you to remove or switch off ATIS you transmit illegally within UK waters. Removal of the ATIS number in my case requires a visit to a Simrad Shipmate dealer. So for me and possibly many readers it is a new radio that allows ATIS switching (on/off) or transmit illegally while in Europe or illegally when you return. I have asked OFCOM for their input but unlike the quick reply with the ATIS number, there has been no reply.
 
I know it's not much help to you if you already have an ATIS capable VHF but Force4 were selling the Nexus NX2000 - see Nexus webpage.

This has a "secret menu" (Nexus terminology) where you can enter the ATIS code and then disable it when required.

It takes only a second or so to enter this menu & disable ATIS without having to send it away for reprogramming.

Radio seems OK - I'm sure someone will be along shortly to say it's a piece of old tat /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
It does seem that many of the radios do require a deprogramming when you return.Fortunately Icom are user programmable once they have been adapted for ATIS(I have an Icom).You do wonder why the manufacturers did not see this coming.Even many current radios for sale say nothing about ATIS in their advertising.
 
I have just purchased my second radio in three years exactly for the reasons you have described. The Nexus NX2000 from Force 4 seems to be the least painful way of dealing with the ATIS requirement. The ATIS function is user programmed and therafter is available when wanted and can be switched off when not. Now have a Silva S10 ( the Nexus's brand predecessor) for sale - the radio manufacturers must be doing ok with these constant changes in the regulations. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif
 
Quite a few current radios allow you to switch ATIS on or off whenever you like.

If you can't switch the ATIS function off, then your only option is to switch the whole radio off, and have a second radio for use outside the ATIS area (the so-called RAINWAT countries). And if you ain't got ATIS, you aren't supposed to go into the RAINWAT area.

Yes, it's a pain. Yes, it's a waste of money. But since when did any civil servant give a monkey's wotsit about anyone else's costs or convenience.
 
Quote ........ "And if you ain't got ATIS, you aren't supposed to go into the RAINWAT area" ... quote

That's very interesting. Where did you manage to find that information? I spoke to the RYA and emailed Ofcom about precisely this point and neither could give an answer.

I asked Offcom if you didn't have a VHF, or if you did, it was properly immobilised (i.e.not just switched off) could you still use the waterways, and did not get a definitive answer either way.

Personally, aside from a couple of goes back in 1997 on our first French canal transit, we've never used our vhf or even switched it on on the canals.

I have carefully read the ATIS/RAINWAT Act which is downloadable, but even there there is no apparent compulsion to have vhf. If you do have one however (and presumably intend using it) it MUST be ATIS enabled.

Really appreciate your source!

Cheers
 
I'v been rattled by this ATIS lark for the past weeks. Like Sailorman I dont have dsc anyway so not much to do other than spend big time....Then, looking at the Dutch regs, what do I see. "Vhf is not compulsory for leisure craft". So it would appear that as long as you dont use it( which I never have ) Atis is not strictly required.
 
The rainwat website is at www.rainwat.bipt.be.

And it says:
[ QUOTE ]
Procedure for boats sailing the flag of non-RAINWAT countries

The Regional Arrangement concerning the Radiotelephone Service on Inland Waterways, as published under the link 'Arrangement', is also valid for ships which are coming from states that are not members of the Regional Arrangement and sailing on inland waterways of the RAINWAT area. The usage of ATIS is mandatory for all such ships. Ship owners are responsible for equipping their ships with ATIS-capable equipment and a valid ATIS code. For the above mentioned ships the ATIS code shall be originated by taking the MMSI and adding the figure '9' as the very first digit (for example, if the MMSI is 220278025, the ATIS code would be 9220278025). For further questions please contact one of the published ATIS contact points.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, it's pointless. Yes, it would be nice if it didn't apply to us. But if we want to go wandering about in someone else's country, we have to play by their rules. If we don't like it, we can stay at home. The really stupid bit is why Ofcom insist that something which is compulsory in most of our neighbours countries has to be illegal here!
 
With the important proviso that I am not a lawyer...

The CEVNI rules require radios on motorised craft over 20m long in European inland waters. There may be local regs that make them compulsory on smaller vessels, (I don't know of any) but in general you aren't required to have a VHF in european inland waters.
The RAINWAT rules are supplementary to the CEVNI rules, and lay down performance and operational requirements for VHF radios.

(1) If you have a radio and are inside the rainwat area, then you have to conform to the rainwat requirements
(2) If you have a radio but are not inside the rainwat area, then you do not have to conform to the rainwat requirements
(3) If you do not have a radio, then your non-existent radio does not have to conform to rainwat requirements, whether you are inside the rainwat area or not...
... but I don't think saying "it is switched off" will convince a dutch, belgian, german or french official that the radio which he can clearly see on your chart table doesn't exist. He might be persuaded that it is "not operational" if you show him that it is not connected to an aerial or power supply.

The situation is very similar to the situation in UK, where pleasure craft aren't required to have a VHF. But most people choose to have one, and accept that having made that choice, they are expected to conform to the local legislation.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Quite a few current radios allow you to switch ATIS on or off whenever you like.

If you can't switch the ATIS function off, then your only option is to switch the whole radio off, and have a second radio for use outside the ATIS area (the so-called RAINWAT countries). And if you ain't got ATIS, you aren't supposed to go into the RAINWAT area.

It not a ATIS , on off Switch ,but a switch to change between ATIS low power transnit with ATIS nr , and DSC radio with full power without ATIS Nr not allowed on inland waterways.
 
[ QUOTE ]
With the important proviso that I am not a lawyer...

The CEVNI rules require radios on motorised craft over 20m long in European inland waters. There may be local regs that make them compulsory on smaller vessels, (I don't know of any) but in general you aren't required to have a VHF in european inland waters.
The RAINWAT rules are supplementary to the CEVNI rules, and lay down performance and operational requirements for VHF radios.

(1) If you have a radio and are inside the rainwat area, then you have to conform to the rainwat requirements
(2) If you have a radio but are not inside the rainwat area, then you do not have to conform to the rainwat requirements
(3) If you do not have a radio, then your non-existent radio does not have to conform to rainwat requirements, whether you are inside the rainwat area or not...
... but I don't think saying "it is switched off" will convince a dutch, belgian, german or french official that the radio which he can clearly see on your chart table doesn't exist. He might be persuaded that it is "not operational" if you show him that it is not connected to an aerial or power supply.

The situation is very similar to the situation in UK, where pleasure craft aren't required to have a VHF. But most people choose to have one, and accept that having made that choice, they are expected to conform to the local legislation.

[/ QUOTE ]

in germany you dont need radio ,but if you got one on board then its got to have ATIS .in belge you need two with ATIS one can be a hand held (for dual watch use)in germany no handheld allowed .
 
CEVNI rules say:
[ QUOTE ]
2. Motorized vessels, excluding small craft, ferries and floating equipment may sail only if they are equipped with two radiotelephone installations in proper working order.

[/ QUOTE ]
Are the Belgian authorities guilty of "gold-plating" the requirements by demanding more than the standard rules? And are they really saying that all vessels (right down to canoes and dinghies) must have two radios?

And as I presume the germans don't want a pile of sunken hand-helds silting up every waterway that crosses their border, I presume they accept that a properly-licensed hand-held radio is allowed to remain on board?

I remember that there was a problem a few years back where someone (was it the Dutch?) tried to confiscate legitimate hand-helds, but I thought that had all blown over.


The preamble to rainwat says [ QUOTE ]
The undersigned delegates of the Administrations of the above-mentioned countries, willing to implement common safety principles and rules for people and goods on Inland Waterways, considering that the harmonisation of the radiotelephone service shall contribute to a safer navigation on Inland Waterways...

[/ QUOTE ]
If such pointless contradictions between the rainwat signatories remain, then there can be no moral basis for rainwat's existence.
But of course, morality never had much to do with the way any government conducts itself.
 
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