Asymmetric setup

oldmanofthehills said:
However if you do go with asymmetric then I prefer sheets between forestay and chute rather than trying to go round the front. If you go for chute furling thats the only way to run the sheets. However if you get extra long sheets for now you can try it in front to see if that's what you prefer
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Why would the OP need "extra long" (as in longer) sheets? The OP's sail sits right in front of the forestay so the length would be virtually the same. You do not have to stream the clew miles out in front of the boat although the length of the sheets should allow that anyway as the sheets should go round the front from the winch & back down the other side of the boat to the furthest point of the clew when pulled right in
 
RupertW said:
That's exactly what we do - go forward, snuff the kite, lead the single sheet round to the other side (which is easy as it goes straight back to a winch without blocks), gybe then unsnuff the kite. We tend to sail with just one of us on watch so all that is controllable and easy, but of course slower than if we had two or three people.
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So how do you stop the sheet getting overriding turns when you sheet in?
 
Daydream believer said:
1-The only reason the sail would be wet is if was raining in which case a snuffer will stick.
2-Who wants to go on the fordeck on their own to snuff the sail.
3-Standing there trying to catch the down haul that will be on the wrong side of the sail.
4-Trying to get it started as it is all wedged up at the top.
5-Trying to get it past a flapping sail out to leeward,
6-total joke
7-The bag can be hooked in the hatch if you want.
8-You still have to get the snuffed sail down & control the halyard whilst you do it which takes as long as dropping the sail anyway.
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1-No it won't unless your kite is a total knacker in which case it will probably stick to the genoa, which of course you'll have to unfurl to stop wraps
2-You only really need to go as far as the mast base. And I'll take that any day rather than dealing with acres of ripstop trying to flick you over the side
3-Why on earth would you do that? The snuffer is on a continuous line, and once you've hoisted you just make it off on a convenient cleat on the mast, or you can even have a snatch block rigged to run it through.
4-Sorry but if it's properly loaded in the snuffer, and you've left a bit of space at the top of the snuffer for it to concertina into, that just won't happen. Your bell mouth is sat there, held in the correct orientation ready for a quick and easy snuff! However, referencing point 4 above, if you have just let everything flap around, you may well have a few issues. Mine has never, ever jammed on the way down.
5-The beauty of a snuffer is that your flapping genoa doesn't need to be there in the first place! Nothing need be flapping at all...
6-With all due respect, you've really not been doing it right!
7-Referencing your wet rainy kite in point 1, doing it your way I now have a soaking wet chart table and galley. Sub-optimal.
8-My old boat was equipped with kites in a snuffer and one without. No question...snuffer was always faster.
 
I always lead the snuffer line through a snap link fastened near the base of the mast (in my case on the ends of the self tacker track) and pull the rope up from it both when hoisting or lowering the sock, as it is so much safer. I also have 2 cam cleats mounted either side of the mast about 30 cm up from the deck. Having snuffed the spinnaker, I then have the helm release the clutch at the cockpit and transfer the spinnaker halyard into mast cam cleat. I can then lower the sock in a controlled manner a few metres at a time, flaking it out neatly in its bag fastened near the shrouds so that it stowed correctly for the next hoist. Tying of the corners when it is in the bag make sure it does not get a twist in it.
 
Iain C said:
1-No it won't unless your kite is a total knacker in which case it will probably stick to the genoa, which of course you'll have to unfurl to stop wraps
2-You only really need to go as far as the mast base. And I'll take that any day rather than dealing with acres of ripstop trying to flick you over the side
3-Why on earth would you do that? The snuffer is on a continuous line, and once you've hoisted you just make it off on a convenient cleat on the mast, or you can even have a snatch block rigged to run it through.
4-Sorry but if it's properly loaded in the snuffer, and you've left a bit of space at the top of the snuffer for it to concertina into, that just won't happen. Your bell mouth is sat there, held in the correct orientation ready for a quick and easy snuff! However, referencing point 4 above, if you have just let everything flap around, you may well have a few issues. Mine has never, ever jammed on the way down.
5-The beauty of a snuffer is that your flapping genoa doesn't need to be there in the first place! Nothing need be flapping at all...
6-With all due respect, you've really not been doing it right!
7-Referencing your wet rainy kite in point 1, doing it your way I now have a soaking wet chart table and galley. Sub-optimal.
8-My old boat was equipped with kites in a snuffer and one without. No question...snuffer was always faster.
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1 Rupert w described it as "WET"
2 Standing in the cockpit no one gets pulled over the side
3 the line goes in a sleeve inside the snuffer then the other end to the mouth. When hoisted the line will be one side or the other of the sail Sod's law dictates it will be on the outboard side
4 So you do not hoist the sail right up & leave it "Unbalanced " great !! As it comes down it has more & more sail to gather in
5 I never said the genoa would be unfurled & was referring to a flapping asym
7 see 1
8 I can probably get my Asm down as fast as you can get your snuffer down & I can do it without going forward. I did go racing for 20 years & fore deck was my job on several boats.

But at the end of the day it is to each his own & what suits one may well not suit another. One can argue until blue in the face. The best system is what suits you the most & stick with it
 
"But at the end of the day it is to each his own & what suits one may well not suit another. One can argue until blue in the face. The best system is what suits you the most & stick with it"

However...
1-If the kite is in good order and the snuffer made of the right stuff it won't stick...end of.
2-You can get pulled over the side anywhere on the boat
3-Wrong. Below is the snuffer on my old boat Notice how the snuffing lines are not tangled as they are led back to the mast, and it's basically impossible to get them the wrong side of the kite, even if we get in a gybing duel. I just don't see that half of your gripes with snuffers are relevant...it's obviously just not been set up/loaded or used properly (assuming you've used one). The lines are aft of the kite, against the mast, ready to pull the bell-mouth down.
4-No, you hoist it all the way, but you should have a bit of room at the top of the snuffer for the thing to gather up. The kite halyard attaches to the snuffer, and the kite is in turn attached to the inside of the snuffer. The kite halyard does not touch the kite. However, I will concede in that picture that there is a bit of halyard showing...for no other reason than the kite was a brand new cancelled order offered to me with a big discount, so I took it (probably would have been spot on without the bowsprit)
5-Asymm never really flaps when snuffing. And it flaps a lot less than a loose kite!
7-If you want a wet kite draining out the bottom of the turtle crack on...I'll still keep mine on deck thanks!
8-If you were a bowman for 20 years you probably can. However for me a snuffer is about ease of handling on shorthanded cruising boats....of course crewed up racing boats wouldn't really see any benefit.

27933025589_30b4cb1df6_c.jpg
 
Daydream believer said:
Spinnaker???
I do not think that you have thought this through. This is not a dinghy we are talking about but a cruiser with an asymetrical cruising chute.
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Not me who has done the thinking but sail makers for many years.
Regulary fitted to big cruising boats gennakers so you can outside gybe as messing up a gybe on a 50' is costly and gybing outside has less risk.

See picture below on the tack of the spinnaker.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=a...UICygC&biw=1422&bih=655#imgrc=rxWy0OL38WMPUM:
 
Steve The Seagull said:
Not me who has done the thinking but sail makers for many years.
Regulary fitted to big cruising boats gennakers so you can outside gybe as messing up a gybe on a 50' is costly and gybing outside has less risk.

See picture below on the tack of the spinnaker.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=a...UICygC&biw=1422&bih=655#imgrc=rxWy0OL38WMPUM:
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Apologies I stand corrected :ambivalence:
I need another trip to the fordeck when i am single handed
Tell me- what happens to the sheet during the tack when i have 2 fairly slack sheets & just after i have tacked & have not yet made it to the bow to hook the line on?
 
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Daydream believer said:
Spinnaker???
I do not think that you have thought this through. This is not a dinghy we are talking about but a cruiser with an asymetrical cruising chute.
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They are all spinnakers. A cruising chute is just a heavier cloth, easier to handle asymmetric spinnaker.

As long as you don't totally screw the outside gybe up, the clew will be higher than the gybulator, so when the old working sheet goes slack it will just fall onto the gybulator. You don't need to go forward...that's the whole point!

Anyway, it sounds like you might actually be pleasantly surprised if you had a go with some of this modern kite handling kit!
 
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Thanks all. Now I know that this is achievable, I shall look out for an old secondhand on ebay one to have a play with. I do have a full symmetric but have never used it in anger as their are no guard rails and my crew (when I have one) are not keen. Of course the real solution would be to put roller reefing on the Genoa and one of those furling asym from Crusader - but that is way beyond my current budget.
 
PhillM said:
Ah that's a bugger, its an old aeroplane spar extrusion from 1961 and the designer passed away last year. I may err on the side of caution, which is a shame as there is a good sized Asym on ebay atm, but its for a mast head 24 footer and would have fitted nicely.
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If you have a spinnaker halyard, it’s also capable to carry an asymmetrical.
 
eastlands said:
I would strongly recommend you check with your mast manufacturer before using a masthead spinnaker with a fractional rig. They will almost certainly have recommendations for max halyard exit height for various sails (symmetric, assy & code zero). I know that Selden do for my mast and non of them are anywhere near mast head.
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Though its a good idea to check if you can, the back stay should protect the mast from forward loading and the side loading is not such an issue in a down wind sail particularly not one for light airs. Junk rigs manage unstayed masts not much thicker than sloops so a mast has its own strength. My old boat had fractional rig but mast head spinnaker
 
knuterikt said:
If you have a spinnaker halyard, it’s also capable to carry an asymmetrical.
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There is a spinnaker halyard just about the forestay. But fr a number of reasons, I also had a mast head block and halyard rigged last time the mast was down. So it is there and available but not by design.
 
Just to add one further thought that hasn't been mentioned so far, consider using an endless sheet. We first did this a few years back and got lots of Oooo's and Aaahs from the rest of the fleet with promises of impending disaster if we needed to ditch the sail in a hurry but it's worked brilliantly. We only race two up and inside gybe the kite so it makes the sheet handling so much simpler, I can even do it on my own as you only have to hold the one rope, feed out the working sheet as you bear away, as soon as the sail collapses behind the main pull the lay sheet to bring the clew through the slot and then gybe the main whilst taking up the slack on the new sheet. We do keep a sharp knife to hand in case of real emergency but the only time we have "practiced" a MOB with the spinnaker up we simply dumped the tack line and halyard (neither have stopper knots in them) and the whole lot went in the water stopping the boat like a huge brake....... The boat immediately crash gybed and hung off the spinnaker like a giant sea anchor. In fact by the time she had rounded up and stopped we were only a couple of boat lengths from the fender I had thrown over!
 
Triassic said:
(neither have stopper knots in them)
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You raise a point there which i tend to disagree with many & at the risk of a thread drift i will raise it.
I always put stopper knots in my ropes.
First, I am of the opinion that sheets & halyards should be long enough for the job in hand
Second, If I want to release something it does not take long to slip a figure of 8
Finally one should remember that once a sheet (or worse still halyard) is let flying, that is it. It is often no longer possible to control with that piece of rope it until one can get it back through the blocks etc

Personal opinion I know & I did, last year, have to let the tack line on my asymetric fly by undoing the stopper knot.. I was flying it without a mainsail up & could not douse it as there was no blanket effect from the sail & we were being dragged onto shallow water so could not turn down wind. But that is, as far as I can recall once in at last 20 years & was easy to do
So for me - stopper knots every time
 
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