Astondoa - Quality Boat For the Med?

[lambohill]

Hi All,
Anyone have an opinion on / experience of, Astondoa, particularly their 46 and 52 flybridges at 1999 to 2004?
It would appear that as seemingly quality builder of azimut/princess/fairline type standard (?) they appear to be a good alternative on the med, and available at Spanish values rather than uk values, a little like azimut at Italian values rather than British boats / uk values?
Opinions appreciated as considering this road...
Thanks!

 

[kashurst]

very well built, loads near me, nearly bought one, inside can be a bit too "spanish" in taste for me but easily toned down. 74ps, big engine bay/lazarette, you can get at everything easily. electronics often raymarine
lots to like, only negative is 'flybridge on 46 doesn't have a sunpad, 52's can be a bargain. seem to sell well in Spain but if you bring one to UK might be hard to sell on later as not known in UK

 

[lambohill]

Thanks for reply. I agree with your Spanish feel. However I would intend a refit of upholstery , sofas, carpets , etc , which would bring the aesthetic up to date. It appears that they might represent value even compared to azimut and particularly when compared to fairline or princess of similar size, year and engines. I am thinking of med use so uk resale would not be an issue. In essence do you feel they are similar, just Spanish?

 

[kashurst]

I think they are similar in quality to fairline etc. some here may not agree though. the hull and furniture is made in Santa Pola but the engines, props etc come from just the same people as other boat manufacturers. you can get astondoa 46's for a lot less than a fairline 46. the difference would allow a serious re-upholstery and a lot of diesel.
the downstairs galley is a bit small but I find I rarely use the inside galley in the med, also the cockpit on the as46 is bigger than the phantom 46 which is probably where you will spend more time.

 

[lambohill]

I think the astondoa 46 cabin layout is probably better than the fairline 46 or its bigger italian option, the azimut46. as it provides the third cabin as two singles rather than bunks. But doesn't appear to be a crew cabin on the as46, presumably decent lazarette instead which is fine.
Fair point about the fly on the 46.
The astondoa 52 however looks like superb boat for the current market-money, and has the layout expected at c.50feet, with three cabins and a large twin bed crew. Engines as you say are same on all the 46 footers and again same story on the 52 with any equal size boat.
Flybridge looks large, however the social round seating may not make best use of space compared to more current square designs, but with some modern fabrics I feel could be transformed.
Do you or others know of any common issues with the astondoa 52?

 

[MapisM]

I think they are similar in quality to fairline etc. some here may not agree though.

Yup, I for one, frankly speaking.
Astondoa build quality is not the worst you can find on the market by all means, but imho the reasons why all its competitors which you mentioned are more expensive, both new and second hand, are pretty evident just by walking around the boats. Even more so if you just bother opening some panels.
Not meant to rain on the OP strawberries, just MHO.
Besides, even if hunting for bargain, surely there must be some around with boats built by any yard...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I think the astondoa 46 cabin layout is probably better than the fairline 46 or its bigger italian option, the azimut46. as it provides the third cabin as two singles rather than bunks. But doesn't appear to be a crew cabin on the as46, presumably decent lazarette instead which is fine.
Fair point about the fly on the 46.

If you're looking for a 46 footer with 3 cabins and the 2 guest cabins having side by side single berths, have a look at the Ferretti 46 (480 in later versions). There is also a small crew cabin as well. The flybridge is as large as you'll find on any 46 footer too

 

[lambohill]

If you're looking for a 46 footer with 3 cabins and the 2 guest cabins having side by side single berths, have a look at the Ferretti 46 (480 in later versions). There is also a small crew cabin as well. The flybridge is as large as you'll find on any 46 footer too

Ill take a look too.Quite like ferreti, but cannot ignore 30% price diff.which i feel is =euro national as opposed to brand

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Ill take a look too.Quite like ferreti, but cannot ignore 30% price diff.which i feel is =euro national as opposed to brand

In today's Med market, the asking price is almost irrelevant. Nobody is paying the asking price for any mainstream production boat so if you like a boat, offer what you think you can afford and see if the seller bites. If he doesn't, move on to the next one

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Ferretti 46s loose a bit of price, main reason is that they are a bit slow with the 435hp Cats, 28 knots max? May be Mike can tell us more....
I think you can have these at fairly decent prices and Fairline 46 Phantom, Azimut 46 levels, if you negotiate a bit...
The 480 on the other hand keep their prices quite well, due to the bigger 600hp MAN engines. For this you are nearly at 53 levels....

As for Astondoa I sold a 46 from 2002 to a client from Venice a few years back and I cannot say there was any quality issues in the surveys,
the client upgraded to the new 52 later renamed the 55. A view on one in Genoa in 2000 also showed good quality, and I agree I like the more family orientated layout.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Ferretti 46s loose a bit of price, main reason is that they are a bit slow with the 435hp Cats, 28 knots max? May be Mike can tell us more....

Correct. The Cat 3208TAs are excellent engines but Ferrettis are big heavy boats for their length and these engines certainly won't push the F46 to anything more than 28kts and that is with a clean bottom. On the other hand, a F46 will cruise all day at 20kts and thats really what people do with flybridge boats. Because Ferrettis are generally wider beamed than other boats, the F46 does feel significantly larger inside than say, a Fairline Phantom 46 and that was the main reason we bought one plus the fact that it has internal steps to the flybridge and the flybridge itself has to be the largest in class. On the whole, IMHO Ferrettis make excellent used buys; they are quality boats and by the time they are a few years old, the new price premium against other marques is mostly eroded and it is possible to buy one for not a lot more than other arguably inferior boats

 

[lambohill]

It is difficult to compare used boats of this age as the asking prices vary considerably and they appear to offer little guidance, the advice I may gather above indicates that it might seem prudent to aim for the highest quality boat I like, and as you say make a reasoned offer and keep trying until someone bites.
It appeared to me that astondoa sellers were generally asking less for comparable models, however there is no pattern, and if sellers of other arguably higher end craft can be negotiated, then that might be interesting...
A quick study of ferretti examples indicates that a couple of Ferretti 480's are be offered at considerably less than asking prices for ferretti 46's, so I guess that in the med with so many boats for sale, it should at least in theory be possible to test a wide market.

With regard in particular to the fly access on the 46 / 480, it appears on the face of it perhaps more difficult to access than stairs, although it is double access and uses less floor space. How did you like it?
Thanks

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

A quick study of ferretti examples indicates that a couple of Ferretti 480's are be offered at considerably less than asking prices for ferretti 46's, so I guess that in the med with so many boats for sale, it should at least in theory be possible to test a wide market.

With regard in particular to the fly access on the 46 / 480, it appears on the face of it perhaps more difficult to access than stairs, although it is double access and uses less floor space. How did you like it?
Thanks

Asking prices are all over the place in the Med. Some sellers are being realistic and pricing their boats accordingly but some sellers are still living in a pre-recession la la land. FWIW, the brokers I talk to say that the only boats that are selling are those that are in top condition and which are priced low. Buyers know perfectly well that they don't need to pay top dollar and make their offers accordingly.
Regarding the fly access on the 46/480, it is a trade off. On both our F46 and our current F53, we use the internal steps most of the time in preference to the ladder in the cockpit for the following reasons. First, we like to keep the saloon doors closed at sea, especially when we have young kids on board. We think it is much safer when kids and other guests use the internal steps to access the flybridge because then we can watch them all the time; I really don't think its safe to have kids accessing the flybridge through the cockpit when the boat is rolling around at sea. Second, the number of steps using the internal access are fewer and they are right opposite the galley so getting the food/drink to the flybridge is much easier. The trade off, at least on these Ferretti models, is that the fly access from the cockpit is more of a ladder than steps; personally I don't have a problem using them but I can understand why people not familiar with the boat might not like using them. On the other hand, not having a staircase makes the cockpit bigger and allows a better view out from the saloon. So, for me, I much prefer to have internal flybridge access but it is a personal choice because I know other people feel differently.
Regarding Ferrettis generally, I don't want to sound like a salesman but there are other aspects that we liked about them too. First, they use a cream coloured gelcoat which is much easier on the eye in the Med sun than pure white and IMHO classier too. Then they are beamy boats which not only gives them good accomodation but it means you get wide side decks as well. The quality of the construction and engineering is as good, if not better, than any other mainstream production builder (although they have lost their way a bit on that in the recent past). Lastly, AFAIK, they are the only mainstream builder who certifies their boats as Cat A under the RCD regs. You can take that with a pinch of salt (I do) but Ferrettis are generally good sea boats

 

[lambohill]

Yes, I can see the advantage of the floorspace being free and the 'patio doors' being full width for light is definitely a plus. I expect this internal access layout is fairly unique at this length. I was thinking is may be a bit tricky to carry stuff up, but I guess the reduced number of steps helps.
I see the crew cabin is on the portside as opposed to the stern, again a slightly different arrangement perhaps due to beam allowance and engine positions further back.
Overall I like the Ferretti look , as it appears quite different from others and is quite distinctive / robust in aesthetic.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Yes, I can see the advantage of the floorspace being free and the 'patio doors' being full width for light is definitely a plus. I expect this internal access layout is fairly unique at this length. I was thinking is may be a bit tricky to carry stuff up, but I guess the reduced number of steps helps.
I see the crew cabin is on the portside as opposed to the stern, again a slightly different arrangement perhaps due to beam allowance and engine positions further back.
Overall I like the Ferretti look , as it appears quite different from others and is quite distinctive / robust in aesthetic.

The internal steps have no handrails so it's not quite as easy carrying stuff up and down as a proper staircase from the cockpit and the hatch to the flybridge is a standard size so you have to poke your head through the hatch and put stuff down before you climb through yourself. As I say, its a trade off and you would need to try the steps yourself before deciding whether its a trade off worth having. Yes you are correct on the location of the crew cabin. The beam of the boat and the fact that the engines are further aft due to the V drive configuration allows the crew cabin to be located on the port side. Actually, we never used the crew cabin for sleeping because its quite small and the access door is tight; we used it only as a storage lazarette. There is another storage lazarette underneath the bathing platform; this is another Ferretti trademark thing that is found on nearly all of their boats. It is supposed to be large enough for a jetski but we just used it for storing water toys. Yes, Ferrettis of this age all have a certain house style with lots of cherrywood detailing inside and the use of leatherette fabrics rather than bare grp on wall panels. It looks good but just be aware that the fabric can be damaged quite easily after a few years going brittle in the sun and the cherrywood does fade if it is constantly exposed to the sun. On the other hand, we have found the leather used for the seating to be very robust and likewise, the carpets seem to wear very well. On the outside, the cream grp seems to wear very well too. My F53 is now 10yrs old and after a polish, you really would think she was new

 

[lambohill]

Thanks, that's been very informative, and I will need to arrange to view one and include as part of my search.
It will be interesting to see how the actual offer / buying process works out in this market and I look forward to it!
I will also take a close look on board astondoa as there are a few up for sale in next travel vicinity, and check these out too, as all options need to be explored and it is most useful to get opinions of both those who have owned, and those who have brokered / or experience off / viewed examples.
Trip after can be to the italian side, unless I can find suitable examples to see on same one.