Assistance with passage plan please (from crinan going north of oban)

[Crinan12]

Hi all can i get a some advice about going from crinan to ardmucknish bay please

We were planning on leaving crinan about 11. 30 am tomorrow (that's the earliest we can leave to get the flood tide through the dorus mor) and up the sound of luing. We would probably overnight in oban or an anchorage south of oban. And then on to ardmucknish the following day.

I am just worried that the seas will be quite rough - there have been very strong north west winds today. Tomorrow the winds are forecast to be from the south/south east. 15mph gusting up to 30mph. Also pouring with rain! Does anyone have knowledge about what the sea state is likely to be? I am worried about this fladda patch. The tides are quite big just now.

Also would it make more sense to go up the sound of kerrera, or go west of kerrera?

We have a seamaster 925. Not a lot of sailing experience. And never been up that way before, we tend to hang about loch crinan and the sound of jura!

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give us

P. S. We could also go on tuesday but it would mean leaving about 12.30pm that day to get the north going tide

 

[Bilgediver]

Have you tried the Sailing Cruising Forum on Facebook . Many locals there.

 

[CLP]

Leaving Crinan around Oban HW + 4hrs(ish) is fine for the tides and the sea state up past Luing shouldn't be a problem, it's likely to be pretty flat. There will be be zones of races through the Dorus Mor and near Fladda and lots of swirly eddies but you will probably get 8 or more knots over the ground at times. Wind with tide will tend to flatten the races. Scooting along with these strong tides can be quite fun. The leg across to Kerrera is more open and there will probably be some swell. Make sure you avoid the Bogha Nuadh Rocks north of Fladda, marked by cardinal buoys. You will get shelter by going east of Insh Island and from there it is a short open water hop to the Sound of Kerrera. The Sound is sheltered, buoyed and straightforward, take care passing the buoys on their correct side. Care is needed exiting from Oban Bay at the north end of Kerrera due to heavy ferry traffic. Follow the Oban Harbour Rules and listen for announcements on VHF. Oban up to Ardmucknish is open to the south so expect some waves but the swell doesn't usually get that far. Ardmucknish is totally exposed to the south and not somewhere to anchor for long. I've only anchored there once and that was to drop some sails off at Owen Sails, who are just behind the beach. We got soaked getting ashore in the surf. The bay isn't somewhere to hang around. Enjoy your trip.

 

[dunedin]

With a forecast of 15-30 you should plan on the higher end. The direction is good, and as an experienced boatie in a 38 footer, I would not be concerned going that direction (northwards with a southerly wind), particularly in summer.

But as you say you have “not a lot of sailing experience“, and never been that direction, and the days are getting very short, it might be worth considering waiting for a slightly better forecast. All should be well, but not much margin for things going wrong or breaking, when it could all suddenly get serious (ref recent rescues in the last few days from delivery trips).

If you do go, consider sailing under jib only, as avoids risks of gybes etc, and if have roller furling easy to adjust sail for the wind strength.

Plan your navigation through Dorus Mor and up Sound of Luing - a few rocks to avoid if get distracted, but easy if planned ahead. And yes probably more sheltered inside Kerrera. For an overnight in 15-30 knots from south, a pontoon at Kerrera Marina may give more shelter and a settled sleep (again check your navigation to avoid the sunken hazards at the southern approach).

I don’t know where the boatyard is, but Ardmucknish Bay looks very exposed in strong SW winds, and a lee shore. Need to be sure your approach is safe - don’t risk boat and crew in the last mile, as often this is the most dangerous if conditions unsuitable.

 

[scottie]

Just keep in mind that it’s cold wet and early dark you will need plenty of hot drinks not too many bolt holes especially if it’s your first time vist

 

[Crinan12]

Thanks guys all very useful

We thought we could overnight at puilladobhrian or easdale possibly. We have antares charts. But yes kerrera marine an option as well.

The boat yard is to the west of ardmucknish bay, but there is a mooring there and we just need to leave it there for the yard to lift

Dunedin when we sail downwind we only ever put the jib up. Tried it once with the main but accidentally gybed like you said! It's put us off!

Cheers

 

[scottie]

The weather according to Boatie shows between3 and gusts of 12 so perhaps time to take advantage of full sail especially as heavy rain expected late afternoon
if you don’t have boatie app definitely worth having especially with tide flows

 

[dunedin]

The weather according to Boatie shows between3 and gusts of 12 so perhaps time to take advantage of full sail especially as heavy rain expected late afternoon
if you don’t have boatie app definitely worth having especially with tide flows

Interesting. Which forecast model is showing that.

• Inshore waters (which does tend to be pessimistic) is giving F5-7
• Met Office giving 17-30 mph with rain at 11am
• Xc (GFS) giving lighter winds 7-16 mph but heavy rain from now

As said previously, nothing in that would bother me on a proven boat in summer in waters I have sailed many dozens of times. Not necessarily all apply here

Have a safe voyage and pleasant whenever you go

PS In Scotland I tend to leave websites in default mph, rather than knots, to give a margin for wishful thinking

 

[Crinan12]

I think we're going to leave it for today. Just stuck my head out and we can't even see the dorus mor from our mooring. And it's to get wetter and windier. We will see what it's like tomorrow but from wednesday onwards the flood tide will be too late in the day for us to leave.

Thanks

 

[dunedin]

I think we're going to leave it for today. Just stuck my head out and we can't even see the dorus mor from our mooring. And it's to get wetter and windier. We will see what it's like tomorrow but from wednesday onwards the flood tide will be too late in the day for us to leave.
Thanks

Thats the key part of being skipper - making these calls. And always better being safe in harbour wondering if could have gone out, than being out and wishing you were in harbour. Always another day for the trip.
Hopefully better tomorrow. But equally there is always another day. Longer range forecasts suggest may be decent weather with SE winds at the weekend (but always take long range, or indeed short range, weather forecasts with a pinch of salt). And by Saturday, tide times mean could go earlier and get more daylight to complete the journey.

Also, if confident of your engine power and plenty of fuel, we have often nipped through Dorus Mor before the tide changes (just make sure not strong wind against tide, so not a strong southerly).
If not already done so, perhaps use spare time today to check carefully the isolated rocks on the detailed chart BA2326 (I mark red rings round them on our paper chart). You are presumably well aware of the reefs well south of Eilean Macaskin in Loch Craignish, but also worth identifying the rocks around Reisa Mhic Phaidean - including the isolated one SE of this, which is close North of the direct route out of Dorus Mor, which always seems to be directly in my path and very tricky to spot on Navionics etc.

If have done research carefully, AND have experienced crew such that can split helm and navigator role (so one double checks the other), then IF wind conditions moderate can duck worst of adverse tide by avoiding the direct route. Curving northwards into Loch Craignish (avoiding the reefs) and approaching Dorus Mor from due West, then keeping to north side of channel, watching depths and distances carefully (not suitable in strong South winds). Also can get tidal “lee” from the islets, but that is where it is essential to have navigator separate from helm, and know exactly where you are relative to the isolated rocks (tricky without chart plotter in cockpit, or chart app on waterproofed device).
So NOT recommending you do this. But in gentle winds and with careful prepared navigation, boats can get through before the tide changes. We have often sailed through against wind and tide, but that is rather more advanced.
Always keep a safe offing from any lee shores, and always have sails set or ready to unfurl, so can sail back in safely if engine stops for any reason.
If nothing else gives you some further opportunity for passage planning research during today.

 

[Crinan12]

Thanks for that. It's good to be able to get thoughts from someone who knows the area well. If my sums are correct the tide will start to go north around 1.20 ish tomorrow, so we could leave crinan say 1pm and from dorus mor to easdale might only be a couple of hours. Or we could even push on to oban if we have time. That will be the main tidal section dealt with and we can have all day the following day to get to ardmucknish.

 

[Spirit (of Glenans)]

Dunedin when we sail downwind we only ever put the jib up. Tried it once with the main but accidentally gybed like you said! It's put us off!

Cheers

Could I suggest sailing downwind using your mainsail reefed down as much as it can be, and using a preventer ( rigged to the END of the boom).
Having experienced the increasing rolling caused by an unfurlable genoa and furled mainsail going downwind in a blow, (under command of an 'unfortunate' skipper), I would recommend a more balanced sailplan.

 

[Bodach na mara]

Easdale is a pretty crap place to anchor for any reason and can be dangerous to enter in westerly winds. Pulldobhrain is better, being merely tricky to enter. I would sail up between Sheep island and the mainland but outside Kerrara unless you are going to Oban. The ferries are a real pain. There's a line of rocks in line with Sheep extending quite a long distance north. They are on the chart so there is no excuse for hitting them so I don't have any excuse!

Just seen tomorrow's forecast and if it is right I would stay put. Not much better for the foreseeable future either.

 

[Blue_mischief]

I’ve been a fan of the Windy website for some time as it gives a nice visual representation of whateverweather parameters you want using up to 5 models. I’ve now just discovered it has what looks to be a decent passage planning tool for weather. I’ve no idea how accurate this is in practice, but it could be worth looking at for your trip.

 

[Crinan12]

Easdale is a pretty crap place to anchor for any reason and can be dangerous to enter in westerly winds. Pulldobhrain is better, being merely tricky to enter. I would sail up between Sheep island and the mainland but outside Kerrara unless you are going to Oban. The ferries are a real pain. There's a line of rocks in line with Sheep extending quite a long distance north. They are on the chart so there is no excuse for hitting them so I don't have any excuse!

Just seen tomorrow's forecast and if it is right I would stay put. Not much better for the foreseeable future either.

I thought the forecast looked okay tomorrow, a bit brighter and winds moderate. But yeah a bit windier than would like.
I thought easdale would be a good choice because it looks sheltered and there is a visitor mooring there

Cheers

 

[Ink]

If you can, I would wait till tides are more favorable ie being able to leave Crinan in the morning and do the trip in one day.

It's not that far and will give you more confidence knowing daylight is on your side.

Going through Fladda/Pladda for the first time is a bit nerve-wracking but it is a nice pilotage exercise, unless you are really unlucky where viz. is so bad that you can't see the shore.

Remember that it may seem a long way but the significant tidal stream will be in your favour all the way. There shouldn't really be any need to push the tide.

If you do decide to overnight I would think that anywhere like Pulldobhrain or further north would be OK. I wouldn't recommend Easdale for a first time anchorage in unsettled conditions.

Regards
Ink

 

[dunedin]

I thought the forecast looked okay tomorrow, a bit brighter and winds moderate. But yeah a bit windier than would like.
I thought easdale would be a good choice because it looks sheltered and there is a visitor mooring there

Cheers

How many nights have you spent on anchor so far, and how confident are you of your anchoring skills and gear?

Anchoring is great - I have anchored around 100 times this year, and over 50 nights on anchor this season. BUT that was mostly in summer with short nights. There are a LOT of hours of darkness now, and it can be VERY dark on a wet and cloudy night up there.
An overnight forecast of 15-30 mph in late autumn would have me heading on to Kerrera rather than anchoring in Puilldobhrain - which I find has only moderate holding, limited space to drag and very rocky entrance. (Do you have Antares charts, which would be on my essential list). I would really not want to find myself dragging and need to reposition in Puilldobhrain in the pitch dark.

Also personally I would not go near Easdale on a dark night, particularly with risk of brisk winds with any west in them. (However I will admit I am not an expert on Easdale - never looked appealing to me by boat.)
And unless I KNEW for certain that a mooring has been serviced recently, I wouldn’t risk lying to it there overnight - anchor often better.

Crinan to Kerrera looks to be circa 22 NM. That would be where I personally would want to go (or inside the Oban Transit pontoon, but can be a bit choppy in brisk SW). And whilst arrival is doable in the dark, quite a few moorings and buoys so not ideal for a first time visit. So want enough time to get there in daylight. But all skippers choice.

PS. Again this is all different depending on season, forecast, experience of skipper & crew, and previous knowledge of waters.

 

[KAM]

You can't go past Puilladhobrain without going in. It's always such a relief wherever you've been. The most critical part of your passage plan will be checking which days the Tigh an Truish is open at the moment.

 

[Crinan12]

Only ever spent 2 nights at anchor. 1 night in pig bay - did not sleep one wink - literally. And another night in sailean mor, which was flat calm so it was fine. We did practice anchoring during the day a few times this year and feel we have got the hang of it, although we are still very inexperienced. I replaced all our chain and bought a new anchor so confident with the gear. And feel much better now that i use an anchor app. And yes have the brilliant antares charts.

The visitor mooring at easdale is serviced and on the chart it looked like it would be a good place to go but I'll give it a miss. In fact I'm thinking it will be best to leave the trip till next week when we can leave in the morning as people have suggested.

Thanks

 

[Bilgediver]

How many nights have you spent on anchor so far, and how confident are you of your anchoring skills and gear?

Anchoring is great - I have anchored around 100 times this year, and over 50 nights on anchor this season. BUT that was mostly in summer Puilldobhrain in the pitch dark.

’t risk lying to it there overnight - anchor often better.

I have Navionics in my tablet and phone and keep one of those close by and zoomed in on location so minimum drag is detected . Put tracking on and you will see what is happening live and which way to go if returning to the original location. If you approached the anchorage on a Route then that is your escape if needed.

I have an Android phone with good GPS.