wonky
Well-Known Member
Congrats Jez, hopefully! Fingers crossed this one goes smoothly.
Asking Price, Want Price & Pain barrier Price
- Thread starter superheat6k
- Start date
Congrats Jez, hopefully! Fingers crossed this one goes smoothly.
Firefly625
Well-Known Member
well second time round I would hope not!
superheat6k
Well-Known Member
Great advice, except Capsco's suggestion I will soon be dead, which I shall be trying my utmost to proof false. Some food for thought, thanks.
My frustration is that I am happy to buy a boat, which those who have followed my rants will know is a Corvette 32, that will require a sensible amount of work.
The problem I am having is reconciling seriously good advice as to these boats maximum ever value from certain brokers who really know the marque, against the market prices being sought. None of the cluster I am reviewing have moved on at all since I have been viewing them seriously and with cash ready, since I sold my Turbo. All are over priced, and lack of sales is bearing out my viewpoint, where I am trying to place myself in position of vendor.
I hear comments that paying too much for a boat is fine due to the romantic nature of the purchase. I think this is utter nonsense. I lost my rose tinted specs for boat viewing long long ago.
I have listed all candidates AP against likely value. Likely value takes due account of the likely work required (prior to items that might scare me away at survey), and I have a reasonable idea of what I am looking at in this regard. Indeed I just love working on the boat, and having one with nothing to do would bore me, but certain require too much pulling back from the dreadful states they have been allowed to fester to. I am also amazed that Broker's feel cost of getting the boat home should not be factored into the purchase price - not sure what other box to put it into !
Some are in my view around 50% the AP. One is barely 1/3, although interestingly for that one the vendor yesterday swallowed some of the sensibility pill he needs to swallow, although sadly in that case its not just the value but the sheer amount of graft and time that will be required.
I would be interested in Henry's view from the motor trade that Broker's feel it perfectly OK to accept boats on their listings that look like a tramp and his mates have been sleeping in the boat for six months when they (misre-) present it for sale. Not sure any car lot would present their stock in such a condition.
My frustration is that I am happy to buy a boat, which those who have followed my rants will know is a Corvette 32, that will require a sensible amount of work.
The problem I am having is reconciling seriously good advice as to these boats maximum ever value from certain brokers who really know the marque, against the market prices being sought. None of the cluster I am reviewing have moved on at all since I have been viewing them seriously and with cash ready, since I sold my Turbo. All are over priced, and lack of sales is bearing out my viewpoint, where I am trying to place myself in position of vendor.
I hear comments that paying too much for a boat is fine due to the romantic nature of the purchase. I think this is utter nonsense. I lost my rose tinted specs for boat viewing long long ago.
I have listed all candidates AP against likely value. Likely value takes due account of the likely work required (prior to items that might scare me away at survey), and I have a reasonable idea of what I am looking at in this regard. Indeed I just love working on the boat, and having one with nothing to do would bore me, but certain require too much pulling back from the dreadful states they have been allowed to fester to. I am also amazed that Broker's feel cost of getting the boat home should not be factored into the purchase price - not sure what other box to put it into !
Some are in my view around 50% the AP. One is barely 1/3, although interestingly for that one the vendor yesterday swallowed some of the sensibility pill he needs to swallow, although sadly in that case its not just the value but the sheer amount of graft and time that will be required.
I would be interested in Henry's view from the motor trade that Broker's feel it perfectly OK to accept boats on their listings that look like a tramp and his mates have been sleeping in the boat for six months when they (misre-) present it for sale. Not sure any car lot would present their stock in such a condition.
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
Yeah but a car lot owns their stock.
A broker has nothing to lose taking the boat onto his books from a financial sense.
You can argue reputation effect etc forever and not get anywhere
A broker has nothing to lose taking the boat onto his books from a financial sense.
You can argue reputation effect etc forever and not get anywhere
capsco
Well-Known Member
What you are saying is that you only want to pay £X but all owners of the type you want to buy don't want to accept £X, or have I misunderstood?
oldgit
Well-Known Member
Something peculiar to the boat market ?
Some folks treat their boat as little more than a floating skip while some refuse to allow the toilet or cooker to be used by either crew or guest ...go figuire that one.!
superheat6k
Well-Known Member
I am advised that for this boat model in very good condition well presented and with the right engines, the max price they would achieve is ~ £ X
If I then assess the works to get these boats to said condition, and take due account also of the engines, and in at least one case lack of VAT receipt, which does not bother me but would affect future saleability, and from all this place a reasonable sum to cover this as £ Y
Therefore the assessed value is: £ X - £ Y = £ Z
I also have recent supporting details that shows my method to be effective- an actual boat sold for a low / sensible price, for which the buyer reports his actual spend since still places him marginally above what he feels he ever would get - in his case below £ X due to smaller engines.
So I am not looking to rob someone, but neither am I interested in paying above the price these boats are actually worth. I would agree that these boats may well be worth more than my costing method suggests - that is if they were actually moving, but they are not. If I buy over priced I join this sad band - why would I do that ?
I would add that as yet I have not yet placed any formal offers, and still have some to view. I have discussed price with at least two parties extensively. In both case the gap is narrowing due to price reductions, but still some gulf between us. Sadly one of these is I believe a basket case anyway, possibly at any price.
But this is why I want to anaesthetise the vendors, not mug them.
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
I think the mistake you are making is taking the brokers average price (x) as a fact, when in reality it is just opinion.
People used to say to me 'Parker's guide says my car is worth £Y - I used to suggest they get Parker's to buy it off them then.'but they don't actually buy cars' was the the response.
And brokers don't actually sell boats, they just facilitate the sale and take (in most cases) a ridiculous margin for doing little.
As boats are a low volume product, with few of each low volume model on the market at any one time, with even fewer still having similar spec of condition the idea of a 'market value' is when you think about it a little but un plausible. You can bitch and moan all you like but if everyone who owns one won't accept your value then there is no market because no one is selling and no one is buying.
Ok so understandably the boat is only worth £x to you but if all the potential sellers hold the opinion that unless I get £y for the boat I'll keep it then you are not going to buy a boat.
You market expectation, admittedly lead by people (who by the way DONT have a boat to sell, just one to cream a bit of profit off) claiming to be experts, have fallen below what the owners of the boats will accept. Something has to give, but at the moment they have the boat and you don't. Either that or wait for someone to get into a financial mess and hope you can swoop in.
Remember when I gave my opinion on the value of your T36 - that was below your expectations. I doubt know what you got in the end but to me that's what T36s were worth. But to you they were worth more. Same story as now but reversed.
People used to say to me 'Parker's guide says my car is worth £Y - I used to suggest they get Parker's to buy it off them then.'but they don't actually buy cars' was the the response.
And brokers don't actually sell boats, they just facilitate the sale and take (in most cases) a ridiculous margin for doing little.
As boats are a low volume product, with few of each low volume model on the market at any one time, with even fewer still having similar spec of condition the idea of a 'market value' is when you think about it a little but un plausible. You can bitch and moan all you like but if everyone who owns one won't accept your value then there is no market because no one is selling and no one is buying.
Ok so understandably the boat is only worth £x to you but if all the potential sellers hold the opinion that unless I get £y for the boat I'll keep it then you are not going to buy a boat.
You market expectation, admittedly lead by people (who by the way DONT have a boat to sell, just one to cream a bit of profit off) claiming to be experts, have fallen below what the owners of the boats will accept. Something has to give, but at the moment they have the boat and you don't. Either that or wait for someone to get into a financial mess and hope you can swoop in.
Remember when I gave my opinion on the value of your T36 - that was below your expectations. I doubt know what you got in the end but to me that's what T36s were worth. But to you they were worth more. Same story as now but reversed.
henryf
Well-Known Member
Never mind offering cars which need a good clean. We drove hundreds of miles to try to buy a car the other day but had to reject it on the grounds of substantial accident damage. It's now sitting on a main dealer forecourt as an Approved used car for just under £100k.
In your case I think the actual price of the boat is largely immaterial. The condition and amount you are likely to spend on it after purchase is far more significant. At £10k you could easily spend more than the purchase price on repairs. For that reason it's very hard for someone to advise a boat is worth a particular price. There will be too much variation in condition. You'd be better off trying to find the very best example in the UK and paying a couple of grand too much.
Henry
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oldgit
Well-Known Member
The great divide ..?
Those with a limited cash amount who want as much boat as they can get for their money and usually prepared to bring boat up to scratch as and when funds become available.No choice but to wait until time produces a boat in their price bracket.
Those who want a boat now in exactly the condition they demand and are prepared to pay the price .
Those with a limited cash amount who want as much boat as they can get for their money and usually prepared to bring boat up to scratch as and when funds become available.No choice but to wait until time produces a boat in their price bracket.
Those who want a boat now in exactly the condition they demand and are prepared to pay the price .
Whitelighter
Well-Known Member
Trust me I fall into the former bracket financially
ian38_39
Well-Known Member
Reality check is that there are only a tiny percentage of UK population that own a boat. For that reason when you sell it you are pitching to a limited audience, most of who will know the price of every one of a particular model up for open sale at any one time. The shed that hasn't sold for 2 years or even worse the shed that has been given away after 5 years on the market sets the price in the buyers head, the pristine all extras added perfectly maintained example sets the price in the sellers head, even if they are selling the shed.
I have to be in the "as much boat as I can for the money and prepared to put in the work" camp but when I look at final value I take no account whatsoever of the hours I will put in, purely the cost of the parts. That way I can own a boat I could not otherwise afford and enjoy bringing her back to life.
If I was to value works needed at yard prices and apply to the boat I have just bought there would be no way a deal would have been done but then is it reasonable to expect a 17 year old boat to be perfect, or would you expect to have a few bits to do?
I have to be in the "as much boat as I can for the money and prepared to put in the work" camp but when I look at final value I take no account whatsoever of the hours I will put in, purely the cost of the parts. That way I can own a boat I could not otherwise afford and enjoy bringing her back to life.
If I was to value works needed at yard prices and apply to the boat I have just bought there would be no way a deal would have been done but then is it reasonable to expect a 17 year old boat to be perfect, or would you expect to have a few bits to do?
henryf
Well-Known Member
Interesting
I wonder if the reason why those people haven't got the money is because they waste it all trying to sort out their poor purchases.
Better to spend £10 more now rather than £30 more later and have an unusable boat in the meantime....
Henry
gordmac
Well-Known Member
Boat wouldn't have to be unusable though.
Flynnbarr
Well-Known Member
I think the problem for the op is one of impatience,the sun is shining,he is boatless and has cash burning a hole in his pocket
The ones he has looked at have not been on the market long,the project Corvette 32 he refers to that I believe was/is on the East coast was on the market for a long time and has very small engines (nowt wrong with that)considering they are now fitted with 300+ HP yanmars.
Are you prepared to wait/be boatless for how long? 2/3years until the sellers price comes down to what you want to pay??
As they say...the decision is yours
As an aside,a friend of mine looked at a corvette that needed the decks doing along with other work.He runs a joinery shop,has access to the skills and teak at cost price.He walked away,to much work.Don't underestimate the work in replacing the decks.
Good luck.
The ones he has looked at have not been on the market long,the project Corvette 32 he refers to that I believe was/is on the East coast was on the market for a long time and has very small engines (nowt wrong with that)considering they are now fitted with 300+ HP yanmars.
Are you prepared to wait/be boatless for how long? 2/3years until the sellers price comes down to what you want to pay??
As they say...the decision is yours
As an aside,a friend of mine looked at a corvette that needed the decks doing along with other work.He runs a joinery shop,has access to the skills and teak at cost price.He walked away,to much work.Don't underestimate the work in replacing the decks.
Good luck.
henryf
Well-Known Member
superheat6k
Well-Known Member
I did achieve just above my optimum expect price for my Turbo, but
1 I had fastidiously maintained and improved her (definitely not a shed),
and 2 I was lucky to find someone who liked her on their first boat search and my first proper viewing, and not as hard hearted as me.
The plan was that OB would take at least one season to move on - not first viewer after the winter work was sorted.
My cost plans are based on materials costs only for jobs I can do myself (not sure about the deck though), for a boat that has not become a basket case, but needs some decent TLC.
I am seeing a levelling over the past few weeks, now the Spring buyers have gone away. There are candidates almost within negotiating distance.
Anyway I have written off this season, and besides this weather has kept me slightly busy with our business anyway (Air-conditioning is strangely popular at the moment).
I did retain my baby RIB from OB and now that is thoroughly cleaned up we will, weather permitting, be tripping to one of the Jolly Sailors on Sunday.
1 I had fastidiously maintained and improved her (definitely not a shed),
and 2 I was lucky to find someone who liked her on their first boat search and my first proper viewing, and not as hard hearted as me.
The plan was that OB would take at least one season to move on - not first viewer after the winter work was sorted.
My cost plans are based on materials costs only for jobs I can do myself (not sure about the deck though), for a boat that has not become a basket case, but needs some decent TLC.
I am seeing a levelling over the past few weeks, now the Spring buyers have gone away. There are candidates almost within negotiating distance.
Anyway I have written off this season, and besides this weather has kept me slightly busy with our business anyway (Air-conditioning is strangely popular at the moment).
I did retain my baby RIB from OB and now that is thoroughly cleaned up we will, weather permitting, be tripping to one of the Jolly Sailors on Sunday.
oldgit
Well-Known Member
For the vast majority with a limited budget,patience can be useful thing to have and the pleasure of tracking down the right boat at the right money eventually, is its own reward.
It takes a considerable amount of sacrifice to buy and run a boat on an ordinary income ,probably these owners are into boating for the long term and appreciate just how fortunate they are to be able to get out on the water.
It takes a considerable amount of sacrifice to buy and run a boat on an ordinary income ,probably these owners are into boating for the long term and appreciate just how fortunate they are to be able to get out on the water.
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gjgm
Well-Known Member
With you on that ,Jez. If you can't buy the boat for your amount then you are not going to own the boat. Was always the way with small number productions.
Flynnbarr
Well-Known Member
Yep,I agree with all of that.
The sense of achievement once finished and you get some compliments on your boat can be as rewarding as any trip out.
Some won't understand.
Maybe a dying art in this must have it now throwaway society.