Asking for contribution for fuel costs?

[mikemcgregor]

I am now retired and keep my boat in Spain. Its a Cranchi Pelican 32 and I use it mainly to go fishing around the coast and in the tuna season I go out about 25 - 35 miles to fish for them. I mainly use the trolling method and as you can imagine the cost of fuel makes it an expensive hobby. One way I could keep the costs down is to ask friends/friends of friends etc to contribute to the fuel costs. Don't know if this could be taken as "chartering" or fishing on a commercial basis and thus incur the wrath of the local powers to be. Also it may effect my insurance.

Any forum members had similar experiences or perhaps some suggestions?

 

[jfm]

I am now retired and keep my boat in Spain. Its a Cranchi Pelican 32 and I use it mainly to go fishing around the coast and in the tuna season I go out about 25 - 35 miles to fish for them. I mainly use the trolling method and as you can imagine the cost of fuel makes it an expensive hobby. One way I could keep the costs down is to ask friends/friends of friends etc to contribute to the fuel costs. Don't know if this could be taken as "chartering" or fishing on a commercial basis and thus incur the wrath of the local powers to be. Also it may effect my insurance.

Any forum members had similar experiences or perhaps some suggestions?

Under english law, if the people on board are your friends/family but noone else, and if amount paid is only a contribution towards fuel and other variable costs of that actual trip out on the boat on that trip, it is not chartering. English law only applies though if the boat is UK flagged, and that means it needs to be on SSR or Part 1 if you personally reside in Spain (well it could also be on another red ensign group register but it aint worth going there for a small fishing boat...)

If the boat is registered on part 1 in the name of a company not you personally the rules are slightly different. Let us know if that's the case

As for insurance you need to read the policy but most follow the principle in the first paragraph above. If in doubt tell them in writing and get their agreement

 

[mikemcgregor]

Thanks for response.

The Boat is SSR and british flagged. Have a nagging doubt about "Spanish Law" and do not want to upset the local fishing charter concerns.

 

[jfm]

Thanks for response.

The Boat is SSR and british flagged. Have a nagging doubt about "Spanish Law" and do not want to upset the local fishing charter concerns.

Yup, i can understand that concern. The conflict-of-laws point in shipping is generally resolved by applying the principle that flag state law applies, ie UK in your case, in which case the rules are as I said above (and are here if you want to read them first hand; you must be a "pleasure vessel" within the Para2(1) definition))

If it were otherwise, imagine a cargo ship travelling from NZ to UK. It might pass through the territorial waters of maybe 40 countries, and it would have to apply the laws of each of those as it passed through, which is entirely impractical. A crew member who was fed up with the job might google "employee rights" and make sure to resign in French waters becuase the law there is tilted more in favour of the employee than the employer, and the (say) HK shipping company would then have to defend a claim in French courts. Totally impractical, and against the general public interest of efficient transportation of goods so we can all buy Samsung TVs or whatever, and that's why virtually all countries have agreed that flag state law applies rather than the law of the country whose waters you happen to be in

I appreciate though that at the coal face Spanish officials can be hard work, so good luck

 

[lovezoo]

Thanks for response.

The Boat is SSR and british flagged. Have a nagging doubt about "Spanish Law" and do not want to upset the local fishing charter concerns.

If you were to do this and did any kind of advertising at all you would get shut down fairly promptly. If you are genuinely only taking friends out you will be fine, but if you are turning up with a different boatload of people every day, expect the worst.

 

[Nick_H]

Thanks for response.

The Boat is SSR and british flagged. Have a nagging doubt about "Spanish Law" and do not want to upset the local fishing charter concerns.

If its friends and family giving you fuel money, how would the Spannish ever know? I'm all for being up front with your tax affairs, but telling the Spannish authorities that some friends gave you a bit of money towards your fuel costs seems a step too far!

 

[U4]

If its friends and family giving you fuel money, how would the Spannish ever know? I'm all for being up front with your tax affairs, but telling the Spannish authorities that some friends gave you a bit of money towards your fuel costs seems a step too far!

+1

I think for many its standard practice to ask (if they havent already offered) friends to chip in for fuel & booze costs when taking them out on a boat, I cant see how that could possibly be construed as chartering?

Its a bit like going on a long car journey when everyone chips in for the fuel - there is nothing wrong with that at all and it certainly doesn't mean that they would require a cab licence

 

[mikemcgregor]

Yup, i can understand that concern. The conflict-of-laws point in shipping is generally resolved by applying the principle that flag state law applies, ie UK in your case, in which case the rules are as I said above (and are here if you want to read them first hand; you must be a "pleasure vessel" within the Para2(1) definition))

If it were otherwise, imagine a cargo ship travelling from NZ to UK. It might pass through the territorial waters of maybe 40 countries, and it would have to apply the laws of each of those as it passed through, which is entirely impractical. A crew member who was fed up with the job might google "employee rights" and make sure to resign in French waters becuase the law there is tilted more in favour of the employee than the employer, and the (say) HK shipping company would then have to defend a claim in French courts. Totally impractical, and against the general public interest of efficient transportation of goods so we can all buy Samsung TVs or whatever, and that's why virtually all countries have agreed that flag state law applies rather than the law of the country whose waters you happen to be in

I appreciate though that at the coal face Spanish officials can be hard work, so good luck

Thanks again. Much appreciated.

 

[mikemcgregor]

+1

I think for many its standard practice to ask (if they havent already offered) friends to chip in for fuel & booze costs when taking them out on a boat, I cant see how that could possibly be construed as chartering?

Its a bit like going on a long car journey when everyone chips in for the fuel - there is nothing wrong with that at all and it certainly doesn't mean that they would require a cab licence

I think perhaps I am being over cautious. Its just that last year a freind of mine asked if he could bring along friends of his for a trip and at the end of the trip they all chipped in with some money. I then got thinking what if his friends then got talking about their trip in the local bar along the lines of " Just had a great days fishing and it only cost me x euros!" Word would soon spread that I am "charging" less than the local guy!

 

[mikemcgregor]

If its friends and family giving you fuel money, how would the Spannish ever know? I'm all for being up front with your tax affairs, but telling the Spannish authorities that some friends gave you a bit of money towards your fuel costs seems a step too far!

Thanks... see my reply to Aiqua

 

[Red]

The simpler answer is often the most obvious so I hope you dont get upset if I suggest you choose your friends carefully. I regularly go out fishing on a friends boat and we all contribute to the fuel, bait, food. It is also alot more sensible to go fishing with someone else because it can be east to slip up on anything from bait to fish scales on the deck.

Where in Spain is your Pelican, anywhere near Mazarron by chance,

Regards and good luck with the catch

 

[mikemcgregor]

The simpler answer is often the most obvious so I hope you dont get upset if I suggest you choose your friends carefully. I regularly go out fishing on a friends boat and we all contribute to the fuel, bait, food. It is also alot more sensible to go fishing with someone else because it can be east to slip up on anything from bait to fish scales on the deck.

Where in Spain is your Pelican, anywhere near Mazarron by chance,

Regards and good luck with the catch

I am too thick skinned to be upset by anything said on here!

My boat and I are way up North from Mazarron. About 80km up the coast from Barcelona..... so if you are around here at any time send me a PM.

I am normally out here July until end of Sept.