As usual, i'm about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

[Nick_H]

As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

... of perfectly serviceable oil, fuel, crankcase, and air filters at the annual service. I feel like we used the boat loads last year, but still only clocked up 80 hours since the last service, so the filters have probably beeen used for less than 20% of their intended life in terms of running hours.

I can see the argument with annual oil changes, as the oil deteriorates with both age and use, but I can't see that filters deteriorate with age at all, at least not in the space of 1 or 2 yrs. Even impellers and belts I would have though deteriorate much more with use than with age, although I certainly wouldn't take the risk with impellers. I don't know about anodes, but again that sounds a bit risky.

As usual i'll get them all changed and throw away the perefectly good filters, but i'll do it to preserve the FSH on the boat, rather than because I think they need changing.

Does anyone skip filter changes?

 

[BartW]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

with previous older boats I only changed filters every two years, even with 130hrs / year on the counter, never had any problem with that.
but now with the brand new boat, I feel I need to replace them every season, just for the good feeling to keep it all in Tip Top shape. So its just the feeling.
The price of the filters is nothing compared to the fuel we burn in a season.

 

[Hurricane]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

Owning MTU's has been a bit of a revelation.

If you look at their web site, they publish this document every year
Fluids and Lubricants Specification

Initially, it seems a boreing document but I think you will find page 7 interesting. Just after the usual SAE chart there is a table of hours run and times of oil change.

Everything refers to category 1 2 and 3 - but all the different oil suppliers product code/names are listed later in the doc - a really useful doc and its updated annually. I should think it is worth looking at for non-MTU owners.

It answers your question, Nick - it isnt necessary to change oil and filters every year. However, I believe that the Volvo oil (as supplied by Volvo) is crap and maybe should be changed more often.

From my point of view, MTU are happy to honour any warranties on my engines as long as the oil/filters are changed after 500 hours or two years. Thats actually the whole of the warranty period.

 

[Paul_G]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

sorry to but in from the raggy side but there is the same dialogue on a car forum I use.

With highly tuned engines the received wisdom is to change the oil and filter at least every 6k miles and each track day.

With fully synthetic oil costing about £100 each time it soon mounts up. A forum member who is a specialist in oil tells us that the oil should be ok for 50k miles plus but still we keep changing perfectly good oil and disposing of it. There are those however who change £100 of oil and resent £5 for a filter


Paul

 

[Chris_d]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

Fully synthetic oil is virtualy indestuctable, we used to run Mobil 1 in racing engines and change it after every event, it was sent back to Mobil who fine filtered it then sent it back for reuse.

 

[jfm]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

I sympathise. In your shoes I would keep the filters and change the oil (it's not crap oil Hurric, it is shell Rimula bought as a job lot last year from a shell agent for both my boat and Nick's)

Change the anodes becuase they are well gone after a year. I wouldn't bother with the impellers after only 80 hours. Just carry spares.

Remeber the gensets were filled with fully synthetic oil for diesels, so are fine for perhaps 500hrs

Have you found an independent engineer to do the work Nick? The Targa 52, 4 boats down) has D12s and is looking for an engineer, if you've got a name.

Synthetic oil like Mobil 1 makes no sense. These are big slow diesels, 1700rpm most of the time, and the local fuel is low sulphur, and the engines are fine on 400hr changes with ordinary mineral oil. They also take 90 litres for both engines, so Mobil 1 would cost a fortune. And then there's the cost of flushing, if you're doing it properly...

 

[Nick_H]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

I think i'll get the oil, anodes and impellers changed, cos after frying an engine on the last boat I never trust the overheat alarms, but not bother with the filters. It just seems so pointless to spend a grand on filters when there's sod all wrong with the ones that are on now. I carry spares anyway.

I'm not planning to do anything with the genny, as you say we had the synthetic oil in last year, plus we we hardly run the thing, i'd be surprised if it did 20 hrs last year.

 

[mjf]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

I have to say that there appears a culture here on over-servicing.

Several years ago I looked at the service intervals etc of similar cars with UK spec to those with USA spec. I think you will agree that there are more temp and Wx extremes in the USA than here in UK yet their service / oil change regemes are 2or3 x those here. Why?

I use Mobil 1 in my cars and 4s O/B motor - keep an eye on level and thats it.

Boat is different! Change oil + filters plus engine anodes every year / check impellers+ belts.

 

[jfm]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

Good plan. The impellers tend not to fail catastrophically. Usually blades fall off one by one, and the pump gradually works less well. So you get lots of advance warning. They're meant to last 400hrs per volvo data. So you're being very conservative changing them at 80hrs

BTW, sorry if telling you to suck eggs, but there's no point carrying spare impeller unless you also carry the extractor tool. Prying them out with screwdivers is a ball ache, especially port side on your boat where the fuel tank restricts access. The jabsco impeller puller works fine, £37 iirc online

 

[Nick_H]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

Thanks, didn't know about the 400 hr guidance, so it looks like oil and anodes only. No egg sucking offence taken on the removal point. Changing impellers is one of the few service jobs I have done, and managed with normal pliers and screwdriver, but that was smaller engines and access was fairly good, so will invest in the Jabsco puller.

 

[jfm]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

Yup on the volvo service sheet for the D12 the impellers are definitely listed as every year or every 400hrs, whichever comes sooner.

Pliers are fine for many impellers but these are long (axially) compared to their diameter. Something like 4inches long, 4 inches dia. That makes them stick on the shafts and in the pump body, hence need for puller, especially on awkward port side

Thinking about it, and changing my mind (!) maybe you should change them if planning corsica/sardinia with some long passages. It's all very well having spare parts and pullers but if you lose the port pump mid passage you'll be faced with leaning over the rocker cover on your port engine to fix it, arms outstretched, or squeezing between the narrow gap twixt port fuel tank and port engine. If you don't fry to death on the port engine you'll cop it from dehydration in a 40deg ambient engine room. Waiting for the engines to cool is a non starter as you know - they're 3 tonnes of cast iron at around 70deg C so cooling in med summer takes all night

 

[Nick_H]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

Yep, there's very few things i'd try to fix mid passage with boat rolling and hot engines, and impellers certainly isn't one of them. That's why we have two engines of course.

Thanks for the Volvo service sheets, mine are on the boat, although they just sort of reinforce my point. Take the air filter for instance, now unless i'm missing something, that gets blocked in direct proportion to the amount of air sucked through it, which only happens when the engines are running, but the service schedule says replace once a year regardless of hours. It doesn't make any sense to me (from an engineering standpoint, makes perfect sense from a VP business standpoint)

 

[Hurricane]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

I used Shell Rimular and was very happy with it
The first year I did my own servicing, I stuck the the Volvo crap and in hindsight should have got the Shell stuff instead.

Nick, before even thinking about changing the impeller on a port D12 have a good look. On our Sealine, the only way was to completely remove the whole pump assembly, change the impeller and replace the whole lot. In which case you might need some gasgets as well. And even the starboard one I'd consider very carefully before doing it as sea. So the message here is prevention rather than cure.

Another D12 thing that we did that was good was to regularly replace the crank case breathers - unfortunately you have to use origional Volvo spares and they are a bit costly - the compatibles that I tried wouldnt fit in the tight space of the D12's pipework. With the old Volvo oil, my old D12's used to drip oil a lot especially round the breathers - with the Shell Rimular they didnt drip at all so you may not have the problem. I just liked my engines to look clean and new. That way if I were to get a problem it might be easier to spot.

 

[Nick_H]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

Mike, that's really interesting (well, to a boat nerd it is anyway)

The season before last I had a bit of oil leaking from the sump into the bilges, RK Marine said it was nothing to worry about, so I didn't. Last season virtually nothing, which from what you've said sounds like it's down to the shell oil?

 

[jfm]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

Ah, me too. With volvo oil the crankcase breather filters spewed oil 2/3rds into season. now with the shell oil they don't. Hadn't made the connection... thanks

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

I tend to agree with you but what's the cost of a couple of filters compared to the total cost of the serice, particularly the coat of the oil and the labour charge? My Cat filters are only a few quids so it seems pennypinching not to change them. As for impellors, even if you can get at them easily and even if you can pull them out, it's not a job you want to be doing at sea so, again, why take the admittedly only slightly increased risk? My attitude is that there's enough hassle with boating so why give yourself potentially more?
If it's about saving dosh, order the steak and frites and vin ordinaire instead of the assiette de fruits de mer and Krug /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Nick_H]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

My total service cost last year was about £2.5k, of which about £1k was filters (there's an awful lot of them on D12's), plus of course some of the £600 labour was to fit them. Of course, I wouldn't have bought the boat if I couldn't afford to service the engines, but it's a bit like ordering the Margaux, drinking one glass, then throwing the rest of the bottle away

(see how I cleverly kept the wine analogy going? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif)

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

Wow, £1000 on filters. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif I guess that's SoF Volvo prices. I ship my spares out from the UK. Saves on VAT and the Med margin

 

[Nick_H]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

That's ex VAT, and worked out slightly cheaper than bringing them from the UK VAT paid. I don't think the same will be the case now, however.

 

[TonyJones]

Re: As usual, i\'m about to throw away hundreds of pounds worth ...

There are various companies to whom you can send a small oil sample for analysis. They will report on contaminants and whether the oil is still fit for use. Googling 'oil analysis' works well.

I''ve just be sent a sample of a DIY product called Engine Check Up (wwww.enginecheckup.com) for review in Tech Talk. I'll test it on some oil from my old van - which hasn't been changed in living memory - and see what the result is.

Best wishes
TJ