arklow to milford haven

Quiddle said:
But it's not similar. Bardsey Sound has horrendous tides whilst the tides into MH are relatively modest whilst Dublin bay is virtually devoid of tidal streams.
Dublin to Pwllheli is essentially a zonal course whilst Arklow to MH is essentially meridional so no, I'm afraid the two trips bear little resemblance.
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I have been sailing for about 40 years, was a navigating officer in the Merchant Navy until 1984, and did Yachtmaster in 2007, and I've never heard of Zonal and Meridional courses. To me they are similar trips, with a similar long leg... just similar, but not the same.

I'm going to leave Arklow with the southerly tide, pop down to the bottom of the bank, then set a course for somewhere around Skomer. I'll estimate how much more tide I'll have up or down, and apply that to the course. Without looking at a pilot, I think I'd be wanting to arrive at the point where I'm turning into the Haven as the tide turns from ebb to flood, but I dont mind too much if I'm heading into the Haven with a bit of ebb against me. I could always duck into Fishguard or Dale as appropriate. Rosslaire would be in my mind as somewhere that could be useful.

Apart from popping down to the bottom of Arklow Bank, I don't see much difference in the methodology, substituting Kish and Bardsey for the beginning and end of the long leg.

Nobody has planned the passage for the OP, so he still has some work to do... but I think he probably has some useful pointers which may have been helpful if they added to his knowledge - I dont see how anything said can have done him any harm?
 
Quiddle said:
But it's not similar. Bardsey Sound has horrendous tides whilst the tides into MH are relatively modest whilst Dublin bay is virtually devoid of tidal streams.
Dublin to Pwllheli is essentially a zonal course whilst Arklow to MH is essentially meridional so no, I'm afraid the two trips bear little resemblance.
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Tides don't run zonally or in a meridiinal manner so why you've used those terms defeats me. They aren't normal navigational terms either.

You're correct inasmuch as the two trips are different with different challenges, but IMHO introducing big words out of context is discombobulating and leads to a sort of perichoretic jousting amongst forumites. :)
 
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Rosslare is a working port probably with a lot of forklifts and luggage transporters whizzing around. It's not unusual to require hi viz in an area like that to avoid accidents. I deplore this gratuitous dismissal of health and safety which has safety saved many lives since it's introduction in 1974.
john_morris_uk said:
That sounds more like a local jobsworth who claims elf n safety as an excuse. .
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ghostlymoron said:
Rosslare is a working port probably with a lot of forklifts and luggage transporters whizzing around. It's not unusual to require hi viz in an area like that to avoid accidents. I deplore this gratuitous dismissal of health and safety which has safety saved many lives since it's introduction in 1974.
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Very funny.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

I support Health and Safety and believe it's a good thing. However many people use 'Health and Safety' as an excuse for poor decisions and risk assessment.

http://news.hse.gov.uk/2010/06/15/health-and-safety-used-as-an-excuse-hackitt-warns/

http://www.shponline.co.uk/top-five-health-and-safety-myths-this-summer/
 
That's as maybe but in the case of Rosslare I think the requirement for hi viz is completely justified.
john_morris_uk said:
Very funny.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear.

I support Health and Safety and believe it's a good thing. However many people use 'Health and Safety' as an excuse for poor decisions and risk assessment.

http://news.hse.gov.uk/2010/06/15/health-and-safety-used-as-an-excuse-hackitt-warns/

http://www.shponline.co.uk/top-five-health-and-safety-myths-this-summer/
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Going back to the original question, it seems to me, that the relevant facts are that it's probably about two tides time down to St David's Head and that the major tidal gate is rounding St David's Head and St Govans Head, presumably outside the Bishops and Clerks and between Skomer and the Smalls.

The tidal gate there is significant and wind over tide might be an issue. I'd aim to be off St David's as the tide is turning giving an early favourable tide around the headlands and slack water or favourable tide, depending on timing, into the Haven. If your passage down St Georges Channel is a bit delayed then you still have a four hours or so of tide in your favour.
 
AngusMcDoon said:
I'm surprised that they let us berth there & wander around their commercial harbour at all, but have used it, so grateful that they do.
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But next door is this :encouragement:

whereisit1.jpg
 
john_morris_uk said:
Tides don't run zonally or in a meridiinal manner so why you've used those terms defeats me. They aren't normal navigational terms either.

You're correct inasmuch as the two trips are different with different challenges, but IMHO introducing big words out of context is discombobulating and leads to a sort of perichoretic jousting amongst forumites. :)
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All currents are either zonal or meridional which is why I used the opposing terms to emphasise the difference between the two routes. As for perichoresis...are you in the role of God?��

@Richard10002 try googling the terms if you've not heard of them....you might learn something new.
 
Quiddle said:
All currents are either zonal or meridional which is why I used the opposing terms to emphasise the difference between the two routes. As for perichoresis...are you in the role of God?��

@Richard10002 try googling the terms if you've not heard of them....you might learn something new.
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I think we will have to agree to differ on whether all currents are zonal etc.

And I have heard of the terms.

And I don't believe they are terms commonly used when discussing navigation, hence my attempt to tease you about the use of long words.

(I don't think I'm God: although perichoretic is often used in discussions about the Triune nature of God in Christian Theology it need not be used exclusively in this context.
The word perichoresis comes from two Greek words, peri, which means “around,” and chorein, which means “to give way” or “to make room.” It could be translated “rotation” or “a going around.”
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Quiddle said:
All currents are either zonal or meridional which is why I used the opposing terms to emphasise the difference between the two routes. As for perichoresis...are you in the role of God?��

@Richard10002 try googling the terms if you've not heard of them....you might learn something new.
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Googled it and none the wiser, in terms of what you are trying to suggest:

I have learned that: "Zonal means "along a latitude circle" or "in the west–east direction"; while meridional means "along a longitude circle" (aka meridian) or "in the north–south direction"."

Probably something I already knew, somewhere in the depths of my memory, but not knowledge that has been missed in 40 years of navigating, and not something that I can recall being even mentioned during my most recent learning experience doing the Yachtmaster stuff in 2007.

You say that, "All currents are either zonal or meridional", which suggests that all currents are either in an East West direction, or a North South direction. They patently are rarely one or the other, although they might tend towards one or the other. Currents and Tides are actually in the direction they are in.

Both courses have some South in them, and both courses have some East in them... so using the tide which runs generally up and down the Irish Sea, to best advantage, would involve trying to be in the Southerly going tide for longer than you are in the Northerly going tide. The best chance of achieving this on both trips is to set off with the Southerly going tide.
 
Just an update on my original post. Left Arklow at 4pm on Wednesday 17th August with a forecast of variable 3-4 but predominantly NW winds and spring tides. Total trip estimated to be around 85 miles from Arklow Marina to Milford Haven Marina. with the aim of making a minimum of 6 Knots through the water. Initially had a favorable tide for around 1-2 hours to clearS of Arklow bank then set autopilot to maintain a fixed course over the ground of around 160. tide turned against us for next 6 hours reaching up to 3.5 knots and slowing speed over ground to around 4.2 knots. We were motor sailing to maintain speed through water at around 6.5 knots. the the tide turned in our favour and the wind got up to F4 to F5 NW (thankfully). As we approached the S Bishop light we were doing 9-10 knots over ground and covereded the last 22 miles past Skomer and Skokholme to St Annes Head at entrance to the Haven in just over 2 hours, Our distance over the ground and through the water equalled themselves out and we were able to pick up a fair tide to gently sail up the haven to enter the Marina at free flow. In other words a perfect passage plan for which I take no credit because the reason we left when we did was to clear the lobster pots which abound around Arklow before dark and also to reach Wales well before the predicted gales of the weekend
I would however commend this timing to anyone planning a similar passage
 
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