Are your topsides climbable?

[Ubergeekian]

Very sad story & sorry for the people concerned, however there are techniques people need to now. If the dinghy floats, you need one either side while one gets in. If solo, try getting in over the stern.

Last year I capsized a wee dinghy I was taking for a test sail. There was no possible way for me to get back into it: if I tried over the side or stern it just sank under me. So I hung on to the transom and headed for the shore on a run, moving the rudder by hand to steer. After a few minutes of this I had a further thought - I was at Rockcliffe on the Solway so ... yes, the water was about 3' deep. I could have stood beside the capsized boat.

 

[Blueboatman]

I 'think' i can climb out using the windvane struts, something to try but right now the multithingy readout says 13 deg sea temp.
A simple rope ladder part hanging off the transom would work too

 

[Searush]

Last year I capsized a wee dinghy I was taking for a test sail. There was no possible way for me to get back into it: if I tried over the side or stern it just sank under me. So I hung on to the transom and headed for the shore on a run, moving the rudder by hand to steer. After a few minutes of this I had a further thought - I was at Rockcliffe on the Solway so ... yes, the water was about 3' deep. I could have stood beside the capsized boat.

You have inadequate bouancy. I capsized my Heron many moons ago & the bouyancy bags slipped, so she was swamped to the gunwhales. I got in over the stern & started baling, but she was so deep the centreboard was under water DUH! I sailed her back - mostly downwind, but every time a gust hit, she submarined, diving to the bottom of the lake before bouncing back to the top. I have some pics of baling her with the kids' potty, but hard copy only.

 

[sighmoon]

On a sailing dinghy, you can normally climb in over the windward side, and sheet in the main a little to stop it coming over on top of you. In a wide tubed inflatable, it might be possible to tie the painter on to something for a step.

For the big boat, I've a plan forming in my mind to have the ladder tied up with a looped knot (i.e. one that frees when pulling the loose end), and the free end tied off so that it can be grabbed from in the water, so pulling it first unties the knot, and then pulls the ladder, so I can pull it down. Whatdyareckon?

 

[Greenheart]

Great to see all these responses, both tragic and hilarious.

Re. the crews' dilemma in the film, in extremis, mightn't any irregularity in the hull's side provide something to grip whilst working upwards? For instance, drain-ports?

A blank hull rising three or four feet above the waterline will doubtless defy any attempt to grab the deck, but a hole, big enough to put two strong fingers in, must make reaching up a lot easier. Maybe it depends how genuinely desperate the situation is?

 

[planteater]

For transom-hung rudders

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What a great idea. A couple of folding mast steps on the rudder would probably work.

 

[KellysEye]

Many years ago in Greece the crew of a charter yacht all jumped in for a swim, it was flat calm, no sails up. Typically in Greece the wind, at about 12.00 to 13.00, can go from 0 to 20/25 knots and that's what happened. The boat shot off, they couldn't catch it, and all drowned. The boat was found later and the the cockpit had been set up with food and drinks. A salutary lesson, leave somebody competent on board.

 

[Greenheart]

I suppose any yacht with a transom or a square stern that reaches the waterline, could have steps built-in or attached, without causing any drag under way.

I seem to remember seeing a launch or tug, some sort of workboat, with a length of line along each rail, slack enough so that between the stanchions, each bight dipped to within a couple of feet of the waterline. Not exactly slick, but totally practical.

 

[Seajet]

Lessons learned the hard way

I posted about this experience I had the other day, under a thread ' Boat Sunk & Man Overboard, How Was Your Bank Holiday ?! ' on the Scuttlebutt forum.

Please note, I would have had no chance of getting back aboard alone, despite my precautions, and it was almost beyond us with my very fit, marathon running chum helping from the cockpit.

Since I posted this on my sailing club forum, 3 other people have mentioned they have also been in the water, transferring between dinghy and cruiser.

One drifted for quite a while, and was only spotted because his dinghy had a yellow bottom for just this eventuality.

Another was swept by wind and tide, managed to grab another boat and was stuck there, hanging to the mooring buoy.

The 3rd went in, alone like the others, in January in a wide part of the harbour.

Like the others, he was only spotted by pure luck, by a passing boat; he was taken into hospital with no feeling in his limbs, - he is a tough bloke too - and they called his wife, " you'd better get here fast " !

They were only spotted by luck, all were wearing lifejackets - I am against mandatory lifejackets but in the tender I now think they are esential - and like me had no chance of getting back aboard - a rigid ladder ( forget flexible jobs, if you try climbing them when cold and in heavy wet clothes you'll soon see why ! ) extending well below water level and a means of summoning help - waterproof handheld VHF, flares ? - are essential.

Here's my bit of fun, this took place after a strenuous day helping salvage a friend's sunken boat, but in good, warm weather...


I had been sure there was a sleeping bag aboard as well as the duvet I use in the forepeak ( and gave to my chum ), but there wasn’t so I had a cold night, possibly a partial result of sunburn & getting soaked, with no sleep.

Whatever, after over 41 years without getting close to going overboard, I managed it on Bank holiday Monday !

I must have put a foot wrong, maybe because the painter was tied upwards and tight the tender pivoted around it, but anyway as I stepped into the 8'6" dinghy it went over on top of me extremely quickly.

This could have been quite traumatic in itself, but I am used to being in the water with racing dinghies & sails etc on top of me.

I have only just started wearing a harness / lifejacket in the dinghy, so this auto-inflated, handy but a bit of an encumbrance.

I have various MOB ideas on my boat.

The guardrails at the cockpit are on pelican hooks, which were already detached.

The lower mainsheet block is held to the traveller by a large snap-shackle, and the topping lift is dyneema, to allow using the boom as a crane.

My chum ( whose boat was on the bottom nearby ) was still in the cockpit, so I was able to instruct him to pass me the snapshackle & mainsheet; hooking it on gave a feeling of security as waves were washing over me and I couldn’t have held on for that long.

Now the interesting bit; despite this, the Anderson’s low freeboard aft and my chum pulling me from the cockpit, it was a real struggle to get me back in.

I have a folding step on the transom near water level which has worked when swimming, but with the weight of my wet clothes it was a non-starter.

If I’d been alone my only hope would have been to swim to shore ( avoiding the soft mud ) a fair distance, in waves and significant tide.

I might quite easily have died, off the sheltered mooring in a few feet of water – take note please !

The life jacket would have made swimming quite hard, that and the fact I collected quite a few scrapes and bruises makes me think a buoyancy aid, easier to swim in and with it's protective 'body armour' effect may be better; but one would lose the very important harness eye.

If this had been offshore, maybe the waves and the boat heeling might have made getting back in easier, but I’d sooner not try it.

The only solution I can think of is one of those rigid alloy boarding ladders which hooks over the coamings; I have a flexible plastic one but it’s useless, one’s feet shoot away under the boat.

To cover initial boarding this ladder would have to be carried to and fro in the dinghy, but they’re very light.

 

[Greenheart]

Very frightening. The shift from fun to acute danger can be alarmingly quick, and in anything but high summer, the cold is crippling. The idea of swarming up an anchor chain when you're up to the ears in ten-centigrade brine, isn't realistic.

Maybe every yacht ought, (by a sort of "Yachtsmen's Code"), to have a hand-line that dangles visibly but unobstructively over the side, so that pulling on it breaks threads that retain some sort of ladder.

The principle would of course be that no assistance is required from on board the yacht. I hate rope-ladders, too, but some form of telescopic tubing between the rungs might allow a stiff frame to live in a compact collapsible bag on deck, secured so the ladder extends and slides overboard to a point that the average swimmer can make use of.

Maybe a short length of shock-cord too, so the swimmer isn't concussed by the bottom rung as the thing slides off the deck.

I expect such a thing already exists? If not...well, you read it here, first! Patent pending...

 

[prv]

I suppose any yacht with a transom or a square stern that reaches the waterline, could have steps built-in or attached, without causing any drag under way.

Yep, and my fantasy boat has exactly that. You still really need a lowering section to get under the water, though steps only to the waterline could well be enough for a fit person in good conditions.

I seem to remember seeing a launch or tug, some sort of workboat, with a length of line along each rail, slack enough so that between the stanchions, each bight dipped to within a couple of feet of the waterline. Not exactly slick, but totally practical.

Standard on lifeboats (ships' ones and old RNLI, not sure about current RNLI), and even on Seaking helicopters where they're held tight with bungees to avoid flapping in the breeze.

Pete

 

[electrosys]

All those nice ideas like trailing a rope are only there to ease your mind. Just try to hold on to the rope whilst the boat is making 7 kn, let alone claw your way back to the boat and then up the stern....wishful thinking.

Couldn't agree more.
I think the trailing-line idea is one of the most divorced-from-the-real-world ideas ever proposed. Forget hanging on to the line for a moment (although it would certainly take a Herculian effort to make it back to the boat that way) - just grabbing it in the first place would be nigh impossible, so even as a self-steering trip-line it's wishful thinking..

Worst-case (the only one worth considering) - 3 a.m, pitch dark, moon-less night, blowing a hooley, and suddenly you're pitched head-first into freezing cold water.

First reaction (and the clock's ticking) - shock, total disbelief and complete disorientation. Which way is up ... ? Eventually make it to the surface - gasping for air - force yourself to breath etc. How many seconds has that already taken ?

Look around for the boat, wait between waves to get a sight of the masthead light (hopefully on) .... 10, maybe 20 seconds later you spot it, only then do you know in which direction to start looking for the line - which of course is invisible in the dark. But - is the line to the left or to the right of you ?

At 5 knots the boat is travelling at around 440 ft/ minute. It might take 2 or 3 minutes to get your bearings, and then a minute or two to grab the rope - and that's only if you're lucky. That would be a lot of rope to be trailing 'just in case'. Sounds an ok technique in your armchair, but I really don't think the figures stack-up in the real world.

 

[Doineann]

I seem to recall seeing film of Robin Knox-Johnson on Suhali showing how, for a bath on the first non stop circumnavigation, he would dive over the front and swim alongside the boat as she gradually overtook him before grabbing a rope he left hanging over the stern and hauling himself back on.

Of course at the time he was a strong fit young man (which, alas, I suspect few of us are) and Suhali had a low freeboard I think, but I remember it struck me it was pretty risky, but I suppose in the light of all he did it seemed quite tame

 

[prv]

I seem to recall seeing film of Robin Knox-Johnson on Suhali showing how, for a bath on the first non stop circumnavigation, he would dive over the front and swim alongside the boat as she gradually overtook him before grabbing a rope he left hanging over the stern and hauling himself back on.

I re-read the book recently, and that part struck me as pretty crazy too.

Pete

 

[Greenheart]

No danger at all...

I distinctly remember cycling up the Fulham Road in the early 'nineties, one hand holding a plate of pasta; in the other hand, a fork. I don't remember how I steered, but I recall passing a policeman who was laughing too much to pursue me. I may not have been entirely sober.

I guess many things we used to do without a thought, now strike us as terrifyingly cavalier, Robin K-J included.

Gadgetry being as clever and as affordable as it is today, it's hard to think that a 'man-overboard' bleeper/transponder couldn't be designed to release a towing line or ladder, and instruct the boat to luff and await the swimmer's return, rather than sailing blithely over the horizon.

For preference, maybe it could launch a life-raft? Complete with a tailcoated valet offering a choice of restorative whiskies.

 

[caiman]

Last year,in the British Isles,three lads anchored their boat and all three went over the side for 'training'.The tide swept all three rapidly away from their anchored vessel.If they had not been fully booted and suited in drysuits/pyro carrying LJ's etc,and not been in full hourly contact with the Coasties,it is unlikely that they would have survived.Two were picked up by Lifeboat and the third by helicopter after spending some time in the water.
True story.
MOB recovery is another one of those subjects, like LJ's,that yotties seem to
treat in a very 'twee' manner.
I am taking part in a MOB recovery exercise on two local yachts tomorrow,using the equipment that the two boats have in place to recover their partner, should he/she go over the side, it should be interesting,I'll post the results
Cheers

 

[prv]

Gadgetry being as clever and as affordable as it is today, it's hard to think that a 'man-overboard' bleeper/transponder couldn't be designed to release a towing line or ladder, and instruct the boat to luff and await the swimmer's return, rather than sailing blithely over the horizon.

Already exists - Raymarine's Lifetag is the most well-known version, but other manufacturers have their own as well. The Lifetag switches a relay (as well as sounding a siren) when you fall overboard, which with a short shopping spree at RS or any of various model-robotics shops could give you an automatic line / ladder release. Slightly more clever circuitry could tell the autopilot to tack into a hove-to state.

Problem is, none of this stuff will do any good to the single-hander in reality. Ever tried to swim after a drifting boat? On all but the calmest of days you'd have to be Michael Phelps in his Speedos to catch up, not J Random Yottie in jeans and pullover. It's a nice idea, but really as a singlehander if you get separated from the boat outside a busy sailing area, you're probably dead.

Pete

 

[Greenheart]

Jeez - glum thought, Pete.

Isn't there a benefit in towing the tender on a long painter? If the electric 'overboard function' releases the painter (electro-magnetically?), then the yacht's tendency to drift, wouldn't require the swimmer to catch up whilst facing death by sharks, ice, or that old one, drowning.

I know posts on this thread have mentioned the difficulty for swimmers, of getting into a dinghy. But surely rowing is easier than swimming a long mile after your yacht, then facing the 'Adrift' quandary of climbing the yacht's sides?

And one could stow medicinal Cognac, under the dinghy's thwart. Useful at other times, too.

 

[sighmoon]

Jeez - glum thought, Pete.

Isn't there a benefit in towing the tender on a long painter? If the electric overboard button releases the painter (electro-magnetically?), then the yacht's tendency to drift, wouldn't require the swimmer to catch up whilst facing death by sharks, ice, or that old one, drowning.

I know posts on this thread have mentioned the difficulty for swimmers, of getting into a dinghy. But surely rowing is easier than swimming a long mile after your yacht, then facing the 'Adrift' quandary of climbing the yacht's sides?

And one could stow medicinal Cognac, under the dinghy's thwart. Useful at other times, too.

In all but the calmest conditions, the dinghy will also scoot off downwind faster than a man can swim.

Underway, if I think there's enough of a chance of falling oveboard to wear a MOB tag (which I haven't got anyway) I'd be wearing a harness.

I'd still like to be able to get the swim ladder down though, for falling in when anchored.

 

[lenten]

i used to swim 50 yds to get a 16 foot open boat from its mooring in scotland----even with its low freeboard i couldn t get myself aboard---i hung a rope with 3 large loops knotted and climbed in reasonably easily----for anyone that presently has nothing rigged for getting back onboard its cheap easy solution until you can think of something better----regards lenten