Are Swedish Yachts as good as they say?

Furthermore, Lemain has a Nauticat so it is beyond criticism - be careful what you say.

His is so good he has even has gold bullion as ballast. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
the trouble with the car analogy is that some cars - those built in Japan - definitely are better built. we dont seem able to agree that swedish boats are the equivalent and I guess thats because they are built in penny numbers. Its also because we are including design issues - which is a bit like comparing (say) a fully loaded 3 series with a bog standard corolla. the 3 series will have way more bells and whistles, but will also visit the garage a great deal more often.

If you seperate out the issue of design and of equipment my guess would be that the mass produced awb quality would be more consistent than that of the HR. In that sense it will be better built. Certainly it was always my experience that factory output quality was better when the factory was flat out produving a standard item than when you had to rely on labour flexibility in producing a varied low volume output.

Trouble is, along with volume goes depreciation.You only need to look at the list of Bav 36 and 37 on YBW to see what levels of depreciation there are. HR? Well just try to buy one cheap.
 
My Albin Cirrus, built 1980 still looks good as new....the gelcoat is as good as the day the yacht was built, the original Volvo MD5B still pushes me along at 5.5kts, she is built like a brick [--word removed--] house and designed to be driven onto rocks at 6kts without the hull failing.....she is a pleasure to sail, looks great and beats many modern cruiser racers on handicap..........for a 26ft yacht she is everything one could ask for and more...............and oh yes she is now for sale as I would like something a little larger.....maybe a HR 29 it will be!!!
 
Depreciation is a difficult thing. While it is true that Bav 36/7 for example have dropped in value, this is partly because of volume coming on the market and partly because the new price of a comparable boat hardly changed between 2000 and 2006/7. Much of the volume sales in that period came from people changing to new because of low price and easy credit. If you see depreciation as the difference between a second hand boat and a new equivalent then the difference is just as great for an HR. The reason for strong demand is shortage of boats and the high cost of a new boat. Do the sums on comparable HRs and you will see what I mean.
 
I dont think you are right there - and I'm neither the owner of an HR nor a Bav. If you take the HR34 as an example, second hand boats sell for more than the original purchase price. For example an 03 or 02 boat at 120k. I cant believe you will ever do that with a Bav though I'm not as familiar with Bav prices as with HR

Having said all the above, I've sold every boat I've had for more than I bought them for - Moody, Prout, Hunter. So HR arent unique
 
Strip all the stuff that goes wrong out of any boat- engine, refridgeration, electronics, undersized stuff, you are left with a hull and deck and a rig attached to it somehow.

I would say that the design and quality of these fundamentals that will (or wont) safely cruise you round the world through all sorts of typical conditions- and more importantly the tolerance of abuse-, is ultimately what sorts out the Swedes from the charter manufacturers and what so many happily buy into....

Would I rather maintain a 15 year old mass produced ugly bit of charter bling or a more staid HR?
The costs will be the same, the labour and materials used are the same, but the residuals. Arghhh big difference.
 
. well ive had my moody 37 for 3 years now, and all ive had to repair, is deck light bulb, not bad really, concidering the boat gets a lot of use, oh and the webasto needed a new glow plug . But i sopose i was lucky as the boat has no marks scraches etc. and the underside is like new so has been very well looked after by previouse owner. ive sailed on many differant boats over the years,and find this one to be superb, i wouldnt change for bigger or smaller or even a differant boat, as this one meets all my needs, but i suppose i would say that .....regards to all.
 
I bought my 20 yr old Sweden Yachts 41 for the same price as a new Bav of the same length. Yes I have had stuff to sort but nothing unexpected. My main comments would be that you get a better-performing boat (imho at least) and lower depreciation - the surveyor said with tlc I should be able to sell the boat on at the same price in 5 years. Spec is also generally better - more and heavier gauge winches etc..
 
I don't disagree that HRs might hold a larger proportion of their original purchase price. But that is not what I was saying. I was suggesting that part of the reason for the higher prices is the even higher price of a replacement. "Cheap" boats have not risen in price so much. So if you do a different comparison, prices all taken from this month's YM

Bavaria 36 £63k New Bavaria 35 £105k Used 60% new price

HR 36 £140k New HR 37 £220k Used 64% new price

Remember both of these new prices are without ticking any of the extras boxes so the difference for a ready to go boat is actually greater than is shown here.

I think some detailed research would show that Sterling prices for Bavarias (and other AWBs) have risen by between 30 and 35% over the last 8 years or so, and most in the last 2 years, whereas HRs have risen by 60%, so underpinning the price of existing boats.

So although HRs and similar may have been a better "investment" in the past, not so sure about the future - clearly new boat buyers are not so keen as HR are planning to cut capacity even further next year - not that they are alone in this.
 
I used to have a Maxi, (perhaps not that much of a surp[rise considering my user name) and was perfectly happy with her only changing because we wanted something bigger, which resulted in the change to Moody, but had there been a Maxi of the right size and layout and affordable I would have been just as happy.

Their skill seems to be that they have managed to keep a non AWB industry alive and kicking where almost every one else has failed. Why, I suspect good design, good marketing and good value for money.
 
As an HR owner I am biased. Some have said they can't see why people pay the price for them. "Is it necessary" one even said. I have owned seven sailing boats in all. I purchased my present (first) six year old HR in 2002 and was offered my asking price last year. I pulled out of the sale for reasons I won't go into here. I put the boat on the market for the same price I paid for it. Its well maintained.

If I was staying in the Med and Europe I would have probably purchased a new AWB in 2002. The reason I purchased a 6 year old HR was my intention to sail round the world and you don't hear of so many AWB's doing that.

With regard to quality I have had some serious issues with regard to build quality but they are not structural,deck fittings and the corrosion of the hard top aluminium windows.

The acid test would I buy another one yes last year I was looking to trade up to a HR 54. And another thing HR provide great support to second and third users of their boats but at a price.
 
[ QUOTE ]
......Moody produced very similiar designes to the French builders ....



[/ QUOTE ]

Moody stopped ‘producing’ boats decades ago. Anything build since the 70’s was just branded by Moody and most were produced by Marine Projects in Plymouth who also happen to make the SIGMAs (who were themselves a marketing outlet for Moody. because no-one would take a ‘performance’ moody seriously). Marine projects also made Princess Motorboats an dhave now re-branded themselves as Princess Yachts.

Now I’ve sailed and owned Moodys/Sigmas and don’t rate them particularly better or worse than other boats of their time (BAV, Jen, Ben, Duf, Etap etc…). IMO they were produced by a British industry that got left behind by the rest of the world and is now almost non-existent.

If the Sweedes (or anyone else) can create demand for a product, get it perceived as better than it form the competition (real or not) and charge a premium for it then good luck to them and perhaps that’s why they still have a production boat building industry.
 
I also own a Swedish boat so I am 'biased' and I love her; best performing boat I have ever had. I am not an engineer so I would not be able to explain "why" they are much more seakindly than an AWB. It is just my emotional feeling from sailing them over twenty years that they are. However, I have been a delivery skipper for many years and I have delivered many Bav/Ben/Jens; I must say that there is large difference in seahandling capabilities in bad weather. I would much rather be in an HR/Najad/Malo/Sweden Yachts when the going gets rough in the Atlantic or the North Sea. On the other hand; if your plans are to holiday sail in the Med: the Bav/Ben/Jens would be your perfect boat! That is what they are designed to do and they do that very well. Get your sailing priorities in line and choose a boat that fits your plans.
 
Agree.

In spite of loving my HR36 in the Med I often felt that the 'perfect' Med boat was a Jeanneau Voyage 12.50 circa 1989.

Huge cockpit with friendly bathing platform, massive saloon with seating for about 10, linear galley for SWMBO.

Also, pretty strong and nicely fitted out.
 
In December we did a 600 mile trip from the Solent out into the Atlantic. It wasn't a case of 'if' the bad weather hit but 'when'. The forecast finally predicted gales later that day and we prepared the boat, switched over to heavy weather jib, filled the diesel tank, prepared food, stowed everything etc. I can honestly say that at no time during the storm did we feel unsafe and the boat sailed extremely well in the heavy weather. On a couple of occasions breaking seas knocked the boat on its side and I have memories of Sticky Stapleton (of whom many will know) on the back of the boat , in darkness, trying to pull back onboard the danbuoy and other gear that had been washed over the side. The boat shook itself off, picked itself up and carried on sailing.
This is what I get by having a Swedish boat almost 20 years old. What I'm not convinced by is how a modern Swedish boat would cope. Over the years the designs have compromised sea worthiness for performance and when people say Swedish boats are better I suspect the comparisons may not be like for like in respect of age.
I owned a new Dufour 365 for a year and the quality of construction was good but the quality of materials was rubbish.
 
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