Are separate service and starting batteries really necessary?

Are you happy with you triax ufo

  • Yes you should buy one

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  • No get the glomex

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I have no intention of buying a boat that NEEDS to be hand started (used to have an Honda 500 single with a kickstarter, nearly killed me a few times and I was a lot younger then!).

Seems like cost cutting to me, probably on the basis that the boat will be in a marina berth, so can always charge a flat battery up / will always be hooked up to shorepower for the domestic use.

Anyone want to start a thread about what will next be "designed out" of an AWB? (not BAV specific!). (I don't have the time /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif and I honestly do like some of them!)
 
Re: Oh dear ....

Why do you want to put ( link ) both batteries together? unless you have a rotary selector switch.
With a link starting VSR, you isolate flat battery, press link switch which connects your engine to the service bank, then press start, no props. If engine starts turn isolator back on, and charge engine battery.
What you get is what you fit.

Brian
 
[ QUOTE ]
- 6v deep cycle golf cart batteries in series for house

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it not true with series connections that if one of the batteries dies, the bank dies.

At least with parallel 12V batteries, if one battery goes it can be taken out of the circuit. How do you take one 6V series connected battery out of the circuit?

IMHO there is no place for 6V anythings in a 12V system.
 
[ QUOTE ]
IMHO there is no place for 6V anythings in a 12V system.

[/ QUOTE ]So you have found a 12V cell? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif 12V batteries are made by connecting six 2V cells together, internally. You can do the same thing by connecting them together externally but there is a size penalty. Trojan 6V are widely regarded as the best available choice for the cruising yacht - sadly my battery box won't take them without major mods.
 
Re: Yes, ideally...

Mine has, Elizabethan 30 and Bukh 10, eat your heart out! The 'engine battery' is a reserve for the lights and navs!
 
Yes you're right. We normally change both when they start getting 'tired' and we've not had one fail (yet). One good thing about them is you get more AH's for the volume size of batteries. Two 12v's would take more than double the space.
Also they are designed for the type of use boat domestics put on batteries so they last a long time. If anyone is interested take a look at http://www.barden-uk.com/trojan-golf-cart-batteries.html
 
[ QUOTE ]
One good thing about them is you get more AH's for the volume size of batteries.

[/ QUOTE ]You are talking about Trojans? You didn't reply to me but I suspect that you were replying to my message? I'm a bit confused by your message. As I said, there is a volume penalty for the same Ah capacity in using two 6V Trojans instead of a single comparable 12V. That is inevitable. Remember, I am talking about volume, not 'footprint'.
 
I was actually replying to Omatako who was talking about two 12v's. But yes you're right about volume and it's a shame you don't have the space, Trojans really are the dogs proverbials for house batteries. Sorry the wires got a bit crossed, so to speak.
 
[ QUOTE ]
As an aside, has anyone ever started a diesel with a hand crank? I've never heard of anyone managing it.

[/ QUOTE ]Yes, but there again I don't have a "marinised tractor engine". The Bukh DV24 starts on hand crank quite easily really. My daughter struggles a bit trying to start the engine on the crank handle but my son has no problem. It does teach them NOT to leave the selector on "both" and party the night away running down both banks.
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hammer.thumb.gif
"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>
 
Wasn\'t me that links batterys !! I would never do it intentionally.

It was put forward by ccscott49 .....
 
I am suprised that no-body has mentioned those replacement starter motors with a large spring in them. They appear to have a pull cord that you 'wind the spring up with' and then you used the stored power in the spring to spin the starter and (hopefully) start you engine.

Such a cunning idea, that I have thought of buying one for an ocean passage. I appreciate that you have to unbolt the starter motor and bolt the spring one on, but if all else fails, you can 'hand start' your engine.

And to join in the willy waving over battery reserves, we have 505 Ah's of domestic battery banks and another (completely isolated) 105 Ah of engine start battery on our boat. I still watch the battery monitor like a hawk....
 
[ QUOTE ]
And to join in the willy waving over battery reserves, we have 505 Ah's of domestic battery banks and another (completely isolated) 105 Ah of engine start battery on our boat. I still watch the battery monitor like a hawk....

[/ QUOTE ] Similar setup - 5X110Ah (550Ah /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif) domestic and 110Ah start battery and recently added standby genset for extra piece of mind although the starting handle is always available to get the old donk-donk going.

Biggest problem with power onboard is SWMO and mini SWMO with their hair driers and taking an hour to dry their hair. That and the two fridges (one for beer and the other for more beer), ice maker, TV, coffee machine and must not forget the toaster and microwave - oops starting to sound like someone recently departed.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
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hammer.thumb.gif
"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>
 
[ QUOTE ]
Biggest problem with power onboard is SWMO and mini SWMO with their hair driers and taking an hour to dry their hair.

[/ QUOTE ]The comfort of our ladies is, surely, what most of us spend so much time and effort on? Not only because we are gentlemen but also because if they are not comfy on board, we will be sailing all alone!
 
I once managed to start a 2 cyl 25 hp Volvo by hand. Believe me if it had not fired up first time I was to kn****ed to try it again. Its amazing what fear enables you to do. Also it would have been completely impossible without someone else being in control of the lifters. As everyone says - get another battery of one sort or another.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Biggest problem with power onboard is SWMO and mini SWMO with their hair driers and taking an hour to dry their hair.

[/ QUOTE ]The comfort of our ladies is, surely, what most of us spend so much time and effort on? Not only because we are gentlemen but also because if they are not comfy on board, we will be sailing all alone!

[/ QUOTE ]Exactly, hence the larger than normal domestic bank, the 1.8kw invertor, the standby genset, a "pukka" engine with starting handle /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif, 65A shore charger etc.....

Apart from that I like ice with my scotch or G&Ts.... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif AND peace and quiet - must keep the crew happy.............
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hammer.thumb.gif
"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"
sailroom <span style="color:red">The place to auction your previously loved boatie bits</span>
 
I don't know about those who have a bevy of women to accommodate (dream on!) but I was (past tense) able to handstart 2-cylinder diesels given vital assistance to slap down that compression lever before a hernia.

That's because everything I've sailed (owned and chartered) came with two idential batteries and the ubiquitous rotary control - you know, One, Two, Both or Off. So despite careful selection (which battery today Skip?) it WAS possible to carelessly flatten both.

But now I've discovered The Dedicated Starting Battery. Can't use it for domestics - ever - but can bring in the other one if it fails. If the 2 x 110 aH set-up could be improved, it would be to add another deep-cycle for domestics like the cooler or that bow-thruster which I don't admit to having.

Oh, who's knocking marinised tractor engines? My 1965 Perkins doesn't even turn over fully but fires up instantly, every time. BGJ with 6 cylinders!

Seriously, had I known about dedicated battery use I would have re-wired that way forty years ago. Learn from my ignorance you-all.
 
Re: Shorting batts ....

Indeed, and in a discussion on religion, economics, politics or any other belief based system that's all there is so that's all it can amount to.

Electricity, fortunately, obeys fairly well defined physical rules so there is no requirement to rely on beliefs. Two electrical engineers might well have a technical disagreement about something, but you won't hear a conversation like this:

Engineer 1: We must remember that V=IR.

Engineer 2: Well I believe that V=I/R and I'm just as entitled to that view as you are to yours. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
I have to display my ignorance - I've not heard of Trojan batteries. My experience is that 6V batteries of the golf cart and or forklift types are always relatively large and the space they take is considerably more that the generic sort of 12V AGM or deep cycle.
I have a friend who ran a bank of forklift batteries in series and had juice coming out of his ears until one of the batteries died. Can't remember what voltage they were but there were several batteries in series to provide 12V. He was in a place where replacement of the dead battery was impossible and had to trash the rest of the bank and move to ordinary batteries. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
My choice has always been 12V because of their relative size for A/H. what you're telling me is there is better stuff around that'll fit into the same space?
 
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