Are paper charts still necessary and relevant?

oGaryo said:
INS (Inertial Navigation System) = not really needed on a boat but I guess stabilisation system on the big boats equates
cannot recall what the equivalent of AIS is on an aircraft
Click to expand...

INS is the tracking part of a nav system. Gyros or lasers to detect aircraft movement and thus calculate position based on known initial position. Yaw damper is nearer to big boat stabs. Anyway my 2p worth on the chart/plotter debate. Again going back to the airplane comparison. Like most boats with plotters, the only bits of paper that got unfolded in flight was a broadsheet, but...the plane would have a full complement of paper airways charts just like most sensible boat people carry. The only time paper charts (of sort) were to immediate hand was take of / landing in the form of instrument let downs and departures. Rather like the pilot plans we all make for coming into and out of harbours....or rather like the ones we learnt to put together :D:D:D

Nearest equivalent to AIS is transponder and TCAS (traffic collision avoidance system).
Nearest equivalent to Depth Sounder is Radio Altimeter rather than altimeter (though thats just nitpicking :p)
 
oceanfroggie said:
Ps. The lightening strike argument has no relevance as in the event of a strike navigating will be the least of ones worries. Anyway the engines most likely won't run so there will be nowhere to go.
Click to expand...
Speak for yourself. My boat might well be on fire, but as long as it floats, my Noah-rated engines would still run! :cool:
 
deuc02 said:
INS is the tracking part of a nav system. Gyros or lasers to detect aircraft movement and thus calculate position based on known initial position. Yaw damper is nearer to big boat stabs. Anyway my 2p worth on the chart/plotter debate. Again going back to the airplane comparison. Like most boats with plotters, the only bits of paper that got unfolded in flight was a broadsheet, but...the plane would have a full complement of paper airways charts just like most sensible boat people carry. The only time paper charts (of sort) were to immediate hand was take of / landing in the form of instrument let downs and departures. Rather like the pilot plans we all make for coming into and out of harbours....or rather like the ones we learnt to put together :D:D:D

Nearest equivalent to AIS is transponder and TCAS (traffic collision avoidance system).
Nearest equivalent to Depth Sounder is Radio Altimeter rather than altimeter (though thats just nitpicking :p)
Click to expand...


thanks for that, it all comes flooding back and supports there's equivalent systems in both modes of transport.

.s. I seem to recall there being mercury switches in the INS too :)
 
Deleted User said:
Not at all. My stepdaughter and her partner are currently cruising from Scotland to Australia in a steel sailing boat, having already done the other half of the circumnavigation from Australia to Scotland a few years ago. They have begged, borrowed and bought as many paper charts as they can get in advance of their trip because they don't trust electronic charts. Each to his own, I guess
Click to expand...

I agree for a passage of that length paper charts are sensible.
As it happens I was talking to someone about a month ago who had been struck by lightning mid Atlantic and lost everything electronic including his sat phone , he was out of touch with his business and missing (not lost) for 3 days.

Strangely despite having a professional crew on board he wasnt aware of the GPS , VHF and sat phone in the oven trick, I presume he has spoken to other sailors about his plight a lot , its odd noone else had mentioned the oven trick to him (before or after his voyage) does anyone know if the oven trick works or could it be an old forum wives tale ?
 
Thats a very big assumption

why?

Not true. Paper charts can be continuously corrected from Notices to Mariners for ever whereas for electronic charts you are relying on a commercial organisation to process corrections and if they decide they no longer want to support your particular chart format, you're stuffed

just pop the correction on a chart downloaded to an IPAD and note it as you go past the omission on the plotter or put a waypoint over the omission in the plotter entitled 'avoid'

Of course the navigational equipment in a plane can be compared to a boat but we are arguing about the need for paper charts here and I still argue that the need is far greater on a boat than a plane

this one'll go off track I guess as you're correct, this thread isn't really about comparing boats with planes but would be interested to know what that argument is considering the points you've raised thus far are not convincing :)
 
rafiki_ said:
Except that aircraft have another degree of freedom. If you change altitude on an aircraft, you can take avoiding action. Changing altitude on a boat (sinking), is a consequence of not taking avoiding action.
Click to expand...

this isn't about taking corrective action Paul, it's about getting from A to B and spotting hazards along the way. what you do if you detect a hazard isn't really relevant
 
DAKA said:
I agree for a passage of that length paper charts are sensible.
As it happens I was talking to someone about a month ago who had been struck by lightning mid Atlantic and lost everything electronic including his sat phone , he was out of touch with his business and missing (not lost) for 3 days.

Strangely despite having a professional crew on board he wasnt aware of the GPS , VHF and sat phone in the oven trick, I presume he has spoken to other sailors about his plight a lot , its odd noone else had mentioned the oven trick to him (before or after his voyage) does anyone know if the oven trick works or could it be an old forum wives tale ?
Click to expand...

A microwave oven is the most effective "cage" on a boat to protect small portable electronic devices from lightening damage.
 
MapisM said:
LOL, can't argue with that, that's a statement well outside the boundaries of logic! :D
Click to expand...
Are you not married and have you not experienced how your SWMBO's logic is completely different to your logic and how her logic is always more logical than your logic?;)
 
oceanfroggie said:
A microwave oven is the most effective "cage" on a boat to protect small portable electronic devices from lightening damage.
Click to expand...

Yes I know the theory but who started it ?
It doesnt seem to be universally known beyond this forum , I think I first read it on scuttlebutts but it could have been a troll seeing how many Ipads he could get us to cook by accident.
 
hlb said:
For sale.

Just about every chart and pilot book there is, from Brittany to Scotland, including CI's, Ireland, IOM and South coast.
Click to expand...

I'm interested in the Scilly Isles - Weymouth please Haydan.

Can you scan them so I can keep them on my Ipad ?
 
I have a boat that actually has a large chart space right next to the helm, so I do usually put paper charts in there, not because I NEED them, but just coz I quite like them. On a cruise I then use the plotter 99pct of the time, but its quite nice to see a headland or something and see where on the chart you are, and how far today's journey you are, especially if the weather is a bit cr*p and you want to know what you still have to cover. Ok, you can split the screen on the plotter, but I dont find that works on 12inch plotter and I dont have the room or care to buy two plotters.
I also like looking at a paper chart if it is somewhere totally new, but only if the coast is looking a bit more tricky. For example, we went to Normandy this year for the first time, and I didnt miss not having any charts.
I think it depends on where you are boating. I am sure I could get to Falmouth from the Solent without a plotter , a chart, or a compass, but I wouldnt like to get from Solent to Trebeurden ,say, with a plotter and no back up at all, coz if that went, I would probably sink. Whether the back up is a smart phone, an I-pad, an android tablet or a paper chart doesnt really worry me.. the chances of needing it are pretty slim, but I would feel better with something.
 
I can see that the chart table/space on boats is going to be a great place to put an all-in-one desktop computer. They are making TV sized screens that will fill this space. It will be a great place to view all your charts (you can even spread your paper ones out on top of it too, just don't push too hard with your pencil), and of course it will be a huge multi-function screen to link all of your inputs to. What a central control device that will be. I just found a 22" IP67 one http://www.moxa.com/Event/Sys/2011/ECDIS/IP67.htm frightened to ask the price.

Currently, I am hearing that the smaller ones (20") which are intended for desktop use are beginning to be used a lot as huge tablets on peoples' knees. It seems they are about £900. However, a quick search shows this 55" one (probably too big for your chart table) at £3.3k

https://www.google.co.uk/shopping/product/4637782777552273678?q=all+in+one+computer+large&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&biw=1366&bih=667&dpr=1&bvm=pv.xjs.s.en_US.Es3CeXuAQeM.O&tch=1&ech=1&psi=MklEUtCPF9ai4AO3z4HoCg.1380207024294.5&sa=X&ei=50lEUsXILYns8wTw94CICQ&ved=0CIwBEPMCMAQ

(sorry for the long url)

This will change the way we view our systems and charts totally.

Now call me greedy, but I've just had the idea that I want the lot also displayed in a heads-up across the windscreen for those times when you just cannot take your eyes off the water ahead.
 
Deleted User said:
Are you not married and have you not experienced how your SWMBO's logic is completely different to your logic and how her logic is always more logical than your logic?;)
Click to expand...
Yeah, but as long as she's (much, actually) better than myself at fixing a decent meal, I can live with her logic.
Which is quite logic if you think about it, 'innit? :cool:
 
master drifters uNiTe!

you're right MM, this thread is becoming interesting in a twisted way...

I've also got a large chart table but it's adjacent to the worktop surface of the galley (it is next to the helm anyway)
so tender_aft, if they do one of these 40inch screens with a gorrila glass chopping capable surface on top, I'd get one for sure :D
for the time, I'll just mount a 15yo chart of the local area all nice and faded under a thick glass and use for food preparation :p

cheers

V.
 
Paper - we use it -great to show folk family+ freinds + newbies to boats at breakfast or evening over a glass of wine of
" where shall go tomorrow" etc
" look we are here - this is so and so -there's an island , that's a really nice anchorage etc "
On the trip we place the chart ( that all has seen ) under the acrylic chart station in the cockpit
So folks can see where we are-cos the helms-person is usually hogging the plotter .
If its new to me the destination I too like see the planned route on paper and will ( autopilot on ) move from helm across to paper and orientate and x check that the " e" version is not telling porkies :D.
I would be nervous setting off 100 miles to Corsica ( wife+ kids) without paper chart out , or writing down some approx bearings and x ref on the compass .
Although " e" has never let me down .
 
vas said:
if they do one of these 40inch screens with a gorrila glass chopping capable surface on top, I'd get one for sure :D
Click to expand...
Well V, you might as well go for this solution, while you're waiting for something larger... :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top