Are most mobo,s around 40ft cat B craft

[Seastoke]

to come a conclusion and a war on stats ,it was just a thought on general 40 ft ers which has been answered so can we let the yes ,no opinions go . thanks for the answers roy

 

[MapisM]

Then obviously everything needs a bit of common sense so if you have four meter waves it is important to drive to the boats capability whatever the CE marking has on it.

My point exactly! :encouragement:
Trouble is, I came across several boaters who believe that their boats can handle gale conditions, based on that is written on the CE plate.
Good think that in real world these guys run for cover as soon as a bit of spray reaches the flybridge...

 

[MapisM]

I'm curious. Have you ever been in a moderate sea in an outdrive boat with "the props spinning in the air upon every other wake, with no traction whatsoever"?

In fact has anyone? It's certainly not something I've ever experienced...

Yes, it did happen to me, with a 31' sportcruiser with twin DP outdrives - just once, but that was enough.
Mind, the problem has nothing to see with the wave jumping at high speed of the examples which others posted above, though.
The real difficulty is when you are forced to slow down to D speed (because either the boat or your back - or both - risk to fall apart).
If and when that happens, in some sea conditions it is indeed possible that the outdrives pop out of the water for a while, loosing both thrust and directional control. In a few occasions, I distinctively felt a risk of broaching, with nothing you can do - neither with the throttles nor with the steering wheel.
Possibly the most worrying situation I ever experienced at the helm of any boat.
Btw, while I did have pretty bad short breaking waves, they were were nowhere near 4m.

 

[MapisM]

I'm not sure it makes any difference in the market anyway.

Well, I have no clue about the real difference, either.
But what I'm sure of is that several IT builders, back in the early naughties, when RCD began to gain popularity, were convinced that getting CE-A would have been appealing to their clients, and advertised their boats accordingly.

Besides, also nowadays, even Nordhavn (no less!) is using CE-A as a distinction of some sort.
Just check out the statement in the first paragraph of this webpage...

 

[PowerYachtBlog]

Well, I have no clue about the real difference, either.
But what I'm sure of is that several IT builders, back in the early naughties, when RCD began to gain popularity, were convinced that getting CE-A would have been appealing to their clients, and advertised their boats accordingly.
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Italian builder wheres in most cases CE A rated because the legislation of RCD was made for the most between RINA and BV.
Italian boats over 7.50 m had to be build to RINA small ships regulations up until 1997.
There was also the typing error in the Italian version of the legislation from 1997 to 1999 which instead of up to 250 nm from the coast had the number at 50 nm.
So that made all the builders have to build to CE A.

Anyways when it comes to rough sea very few builders will actually sea trial the boat itself, citing various valid and some not so valid reasons.
I once did a game with a customer of mine at a Genoa boat show, and only three builders out of 20 plus offered to do sea trial in a rough force six winds three to four meter waves at that day of the show.
These builders where Guy Couach with 2100 MY, Uniesse (who just launched the new 70 back then), and Italcraft with both the 70 Drago and X 46.

 

[Hot Property]

Slight thread drift.... I have an Italian Saver 690 (23ft) which is Cat B rated.

It's quite a pointy, less tubby boat but I'm not planning a trip to the Med anytime soon!

 

[TwoHooter]

So, maybe the question should be:
Would you actually want to be out in the Ocean in a Nordhavn 40?
(e.g. The Atlantic).

But would a Nordhavn 40 actually sink in 4m waves? Most probably not, unless something untoward happened. However the crew would be most probably be seasick and pummelled, wishing they were back in the pub, and bits might fall off the boat (e.g. the kitchen).

I've only just seen this thread, hence late reply. Our boat is a Nordhavn 40. I know from personal experience that 4m waves don't bother it at all. One of these boats has circumnavigated. Others have crossed oceans including the Atlantic. Obviously it's better to cross oceans in a bigger boat but if the 40 is all you can afford it's perfectly well able to do the job and deserves its Cat A certificate.

 

[NBs]

Not correct.
Stability requirements are the difference between a CE A and B. Nor shafts, stern drives, or a displacement hull shape or any other detail.
If the boat needs to be rated at CE A with 8 persons, it needs a certain stability requirement, which is more stricter to get with A.

Italian yards found it less problematic to get CE A (back around 2000) because they had to build to RINA small ship standard back in the eighties and nineties.

Hi,

The CE A-B rating gap is not just a stability. For example, Nauticat 441 is CE-B due to side doors and threshold height. Outside Europe it is ocean classified, exactly the same boat. In addition to a number of small details.

NBs

 

[Portofino]

Ours has an A stamped on the makers plate .FWIW ?
Water tight bulkheads , storm shutters on the port holes ,and I guess easy ability to drain water - stability issues are favourable to taking kg,s / water over the top ?

Depends on the wave L relative to your boat L
Tend to find if you speed up the ride improves - cut through them rather than be a passenger cork like. bobbing up and down .
Or sit in a trough if beam .
Or surf if behind - once sat on the Lee of a big wave doing 32 knots for miles . No fuss or drama .
Mistral was blowing behind us just rode one wave for 60 miles .

Fair weather boaters btw ,we don,t go looking for it - just reassuring to know passage planning if you get caught out that’s all .

 

[NBs]

RCD category is utter bollocks.
Difference between CAT B and C is how much the manufacturer paid.

It does not mean you can go out in F8 and breaking 4 m waves.
It's a stupid narrow scheme which is little more than eu protectionism

Hi,

if you read the mail "17" link, then you notice the difference is more than the manufacturer's willingness to pay. Part C boats can not be structurally funded to get CE-B boats. I think CE classes made to facilitate a consumer who does not understand hydrodynamics and physics laws and poor seaman skills. Breaking waves 4m high definition missing one important parameter, wave spacing time, rising wind and wave spacing can be 7-8 seconds vs stabilized wind where wave spacing is much longer.

Here is one example of a tangible change that Nordig tugs had to change to get CE-B. Engine room without air intake opening change higher. See the link

http://www.glantoa.net/nordic_tugs_stability.pdf

NBs

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Well, I have no clue about the real difference, either.
But what I'm sure of is that several IT builders, back in the early naughties, when RCD began to gain popularity, were convinced that getting CE-A would have been appealing to their clients, and advertised their boats accordingly.
.

Did they? I dont remember ever seeing any kind of publicity from Ferretti trumpeting the fact that their boats are certified Cat A and others arent. For me it is more indicative than prescriptive. I certainly do not take it literally that my Ferretti can safely be navigated in wind speeds in excess of F8 and wave heights of 4m and above. What I do believe is that the designers have given thought to how their boats would qualify for Cat A and that indicates to me that their boats should be a little more capable of dealing with marginal sea conditions than others that are not certified Cat A

Mind you it is a shame that Cat A certification doesnt seem to cover proper helm seating

 

[baylabayla3288]

Did they? I dont remember ever seeing any kind of publicity from Ferretti trumpeting the fact that their boats are certified Cat A and others arent. For me it is more indicative than prescriptive. I certainly do not take it literally that my Ferretti can safely be navigated in wind speeds in excess of F8 and wave heights of 4m and above. What I do believe is that the designers have given thought to how their boats would qualify for Cat A and that indicates to me that their boats should be a little more capable of dealing with marginal sea conditions than others that are not certified Cat A

Mind you it is a shame that Cat A certification doesnt seem to cover proper helm seating

In those conditions where Cat A matters you would be helming in standing position and from the lower helm. For this the helm is actually not bad at all . To owercome the somewhat unusual stering position when seated I installed a wireless remote for the AP which releases me to helm in any position and from anywhere in the boat.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

In those conditions where Cat A matters you would be helming in standing position and from the lower helm. F

Yes that is the old Norberto Ferretti story which is trotted out regularly at boat shows by Ferretti salesmen to explain the shitty helm seats on their boats. Call me an idle git but I prefer to sit in a nice comfy supportive seat when I'm helming my boat

 

[MapisM]

I had a different story in mind, i.e. that Ferretti owners prefer to sip champagne, leaving the helming duties to their crew...

Ref, trumpeting CE-A, you are probably right in saying that the never used it a lot in advertising, but back in the days before I began looking at boat shows as a crowded waste of time, I clearly remember that someone at a Ferretti stand in Genoa (and also at Raffaelli, btw) underlined to me that their boat were bound to be better than AZ because of that...

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I had a different story in mind, i.e. that Ferretti owners prefer to sip champagne, leaving the helming duties to their crew...
.

I would have thought that Ferretti owners sip Prosecco actually

 

[MapisM]

I would have thought that Ferretti owners sip Prosecco actually

Nah, charmat Prosecco is for the latest SHIG Ferretti generation.
Proper Ferretti owners like your good self are meant to go for champagne, or possibly other IT champenois method bottles, some of which are as good as most F bubbles. :encouragement: