Are modern yachts designed wrong?

[Greenheart]

Looking at her layout plans, I wonder if there's a nicer boat anywhere, for all-weather ocean cruising, than the Seastream 43?

View attachment 43002

Anybody know how many were built?

 

[30boat]

Looking at her layout plans, I wonder if there's a nicer boat anywhere, for all-weather ocean cruising, than the Seastream 43?

View attachment 43002

Anybody know how many were built?

Too conservative as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Seajet]

Dan,

not sure I like the galley position, the further forward the more movement to deal with.

I'd like something with a big aft owners cabin with ensuite of course, room for at least two guests and most importantly a decent workshop in the forecabin !

 

[Twister_Ken]

Looking at her layout plans, I wonder if there's a nicer boat anywhere, for all-weather ocean cruising, than the Seastream 43?

Anybody know how many were built?

I'd think she'd be a pig downwind in a blow, and with big seas. She'd dig a big hole in the water from which she couldn't escape by planing, then be overtaken by waves, screwing her around something wicked. Only my opinion of course.

How many built? Not many?

 

[lw395]

I don't sail ketches much, but whenever I have, I've quickly been reminded that sloops are much better upwind, and everywhere seems to be upwind.
Particularly in a ketch, where it only points about 45 degrees true and then makes a bit of leeway. What would be a fetch in a good sloop becomes a beat/motorsail/disappointment in a ketch.

 

[30boat]

I'd think she'd be a pig downwind in a blow, and with big seas. She'd dig a big hole in the water from which she couldn't escape by planing, then be overtaken by waves, screwing her around something wicked. Only my opinion of course.

How many built? Not many?

That's what I meant by conservative.A lot has been learnt since those lines were considered modern.My Ed Dubois designed Fulmar behaves impecbly downwind because the aft sections are wide enough and flat enough so it's not a recent development .I don't understand what people see in those pinched sterns.

 

[Greenheart]

...not sure I like the galley position, the further forward the more movement to deal with.

Hmm. I hadn't noticed that. On balance I reckon I could live with it though, because of the space it frees-up.

She'd dig a big hole in the water from which she couldn't escape by planing, then be overtaken by waves, screwing her around something wicked.

Isn't her long fin the perfect antidote to 'screwing around'?

I don't sail ketches much, but whenever I have, I've quickly been reminded that sloops are much better upwind, and everywhere seems to be upwind.

Wise words, I'm sure. Although I was thinking that trans-ocean passage-planning would include pretty massive diversions to take advantage of predictable fair winds.

 

[Tranona]

Looking at her layout plans, I wonder if there's a nicer boat anywhere, for all-weather ocean cruising, than the Seastream 43?

View attachment 43002

Anybody know how many were built?

Around 20 built. One for sale (and has been for some time) in Falmouth with Red Ensign. Custom layout different from the one shown, but does have a double aft cabin to suit Seajet (assuming he is a midget as the pinched stern means not a lot of headroom)! So packed with furniture and goodies that it all seems a bit cramped compared with, say, Sailfree's similar size Jeanneau, but is a lot of hardware for the money!

 

[prv]

not sure I like the galley position, the further forward the more movement to deal with.

Plus, how do you pass a cup of tea up to the helmsman from there?

I'd like something with a big aft owners cabin with ensuite of course

Yep, big "bedroom" important if it's your home. I can't see the point of multiple lavvies on a family-sized yacht, though. Waste of space. It's not as if everybody has to get up for work/school at the same time in the morning and collide over use of the bathroom.

room for at least two guests

I think a lot of people end up over-boated this way. Inevitably you will have guests less than you thought, and dragging an extra pair of bunks around the ocean just in case seems like a waste. If I were designing a boat for long-term cruising I would have cabins/bunks for the people whose actual home it was, and ensure that the saloon can cope with occasional extras.

and most importantly a decent workshop in the forecabin !

Agree wholeheartedly with that!

Pete

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Disk brakes were invented for Concorde

Are you thinking of carbon disks?

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Looking at her layout plans, I wonder if there's a nicer boat anywhere, for all-weather ocean cruising, than the Seastream 43?

View attachment 43002

Anybody know how many were built?

Peter Brett's Rival 41, both the aft cabin and centre cockpit versions, are better arrangements for ocean sailing, for vessels of that ilk; there were 57 built. There are plans for wheel house and one exists in Hong Kong, most settled for fixed windscreens and hoods though.

In my opinion a superior yacht http://www.rivalowners.org.uk/brochures/brr41.htm However, they are old hat now with regards to modern yacht space, speed and the what the market wants. You never know, with the advent of the effects of global warming, blustery weather, heavy winds, swells and large seas, maybe these old heavy cruisers will come back into their own again. It's a joke, before I get flamed.

 

[maby]

Peter Brett's Rival 41, both the aft cabin and centre cockpit versions, are better arrangements for ocean sailing, for vessels of that ilk; there were 57 built. There are plans for wheel house and one exists in Hong Kong, most settled for fixed windscreens and hoods though.

In my opinion a superior yacht http://www.rivalowners.org.uk/brochures/brr41.htm However, they are old hat now with regards to modern yacht space, speed and the what the market wants. You never know, with the advent of the effects of global warming, blustery weather, heavy winds, swells and large seas, maybe these old heavy cruisers will come back into their own again. It's a joke, before I get flamed.

I like the layout of modern boats, but I would certainly prefer the build level of one of the old "heavies".

 

[KellysEye]

>If you look through history you will find all sorts of boats have sunk mid-ocean - long keel, fin keel catamarans, centreboard etc etc

Can you give an example of a long keeler sinking while ocean sailing please. The Titanic had a long keel perhaps you mean boats like that.

 

[flaming]

>If you look through history you will find all sorts of boats have sunk mid-ocean - long keel, fin keel catamarans, centreboard etc etc

Can you give an example of a long keeler sinking while ocean sailing please. The Titanic had a long keel perhaps you mean boats like that.

Are you claiming that no long keeler has ever sunk whilst ocean sailing?

 

[JomsViking]

>If you look through history you will find all sorts of boats have sunk mid-ocean - long keel, fin keel catamarans, centreboard etc etc

Can you give an example of a long keeler sinking while ocean sailing please. The Titanic had a long keel perhaps you mean boats like that.

http://johnvigor.blogspot.dk/2012/06/truth-about-spray.html

 

[Tranona]

>If you look through history you will find all sorts of boats have sunk mid-ocean - long keel, fin keel catamarans, centreboard etc etc

Can you give an example of a long keeler sinking while ocean sailing please. The Titanic had a long keel perhaps you mean boats like that.

Two well known examples. Robertson family's Lucette and the Baileys Auralyn. Just think of all those schooners lost in the North Atlantic and the Caribbean. If I could be bothered to waste the time searching the internet I could give you a long list.

Why do you have so much difficulty accepting that ocean sailing (indeed all sailing) is potentially dangerous and casualties are not limited to one particular type of boat? Or do you imagine having a long keeled boat makes you immune from sinking?

 

[JomsViking]

Are you claiming that no long keeler has ever sunk whilst ocean sailing?

I know of a Vega that sank and two folkboats (not ocean crossing, but still sailing) + my own longkeeler almost lost the keel (it became wobbly) and the boatbuilder told me that we were lucky it didn't break off.

 

[30boat]

http://johnvigor.blogspot.dk/2012/06/truth-about-spray.html

I knew the Spray relied on form stability and a bunch of rocks in the bottom but didn't know it was this bad."
“A big lurching cross sea, that would scarcely disturb a properly designed hull, can — especially if it coincides, as it often does, with an extra-savage puff of a squall — flip over a Spray hull just as you would a poker chip."

 

[dunedin]

Can you give an example of a long keeler sinking while ocean sailing please. The Titanic had a long keel perhaps you mean boats like that.

Loads of them - how long have you got. The original Jester for example.

But not due to having any particular keel style - there are lots of risks that can cause boats to be lost at sea, and keel loss is one of the most exceptionally rare (outside extreme racers with swing keels)

 

[Don107]

Hi to all

Interesting thread

Just wondering what others think of this hull shape

Regards Don