WestWittering
Well-Known Member
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Are ex-Military Types better Skippers?
- Thread starter WestWittering
- Start date
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
Sometimes.
davidej
Well-Known Member
Only one experience of sailing with a military skipper and from that my answer would be a resounding NO.
To much barking orders without any explanation of what he was trying to achieve.
but then - he was only a major - I think any career officer who only gets that high is cosidered a failure.
On the otherhand, I have had a MN Captain as crew- absolutely brilliant.
Always there with sound advice but never tried to take over
To much barking orders without any explanation of what he was trying to achieve.
but then - he was only a major - I think any career officer who only gets that high is cosidered a failure.
On the otherhand, I have had a MN Captain as crew- absolutely brilliant.
Always there with sound advice but never tried to take over
Jamesuk
Well-Known Member
No they are not, they just sound like they are 
) bossy boots!
) bossy boots!Norfolknick
Well-Known Member
As I fit into the bracket of being one, I would agree that sometimes we are poor at explaining ourselves when tasking crew, but that tends to be at moments of ..... heightened tension (hopefully we don't have emergencies) and when things need to happen without question.
I have to say military training, particularly of leadership is all about inspiring action, and ensuring that crew remain motivated to do... even when its cold, wet, tiring, and without alcoholic rewards. I can only hope that there are other better examples out there than me and the aforementioned Major to back this up.
One thing you can always rely on from Ex Mil crew or skippers is that they will never shy away from that 0300 headsail change in a F7 or a stint on the helm in driving rain - they will always be looking to demonstrate their grit and ... bone stupidity - oh and they will always have a secret stash of a good whet (or dram).
I have to say military training, particularly of leadership is all about inspiring action, and ensuring that crew remain motivated to do... even when its cold, wet, tiring, and without alcoholic rewards. I can only hope that there are other better examples out there than me and the aforementioned Major to back this up.
One thing you can always rely on from Ex Mil crew or skippers is that they will never shy away from that 0300 headsail change in a F7 or a stint on the helm in driving rain - they will always be looking to demonstrate their grit and ... bone stupidity - oh and they will always have a secret stash of a good whet (or dram).
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
Unless they are RAF. In which case they only work in the daytime.
But actually this is a silly question... I suspect that the quality of a skipper is really down to the expectations of the crew.... Who after all are the judges...
If the crew is ex military... Then they will have a different set of expectations to a non military crew....
That does not mean that ex military types can't make excellent skippers for non military crews... Or ****e skippers for military crews...
Which is why I said sometimes.
mikemanor
Well-Known Member
Poignard
Well-Known Member
Keep silence when you're speaking to me! And get your 'air cut!
Grumpybear
Well-Known Member
After over twenty years in the navy, I would be very surprised (and not a little mortified) if anybody described me as a military type. On the other hand, I have encountered traffic wardens who obviously modelled themselves on caricatures of sergeant majors in bad regiments of South American armies........
Man management was for years in the peacetime services a poor but easy and politically correct substitute for leadership, which I define as the art of getting people to do unpleasant things against their better judgment in a way which makes them prepared to repeat the experience. Leadership is a necessary part of being a good skipper.
Man management was for years in the peacetime services a poor but easy and politically correct substitute for leadership, which I define as the art of getting people to do unpleasant things against their better judgment in a way which makes them prepared to repeat the experience. Leadership is a necessary part of being a good skipper.
Marsupial
Well-Known Member
Not had much experience of ex military types as skippers probably more than 10 but less than 20 mostly army. They are all capable of giving clear orders but alas few were capable sizing up a boating situation and giving correct orders, mainly I think because they assumed (because of rank - in the army) they knew what to do but in reality didn't have a clue. The funniest was a guy who told his crew to do everything and to ONLY do exactly what he told them to do, on coming alongside windward side berth in gale he had told them all where to be and they were all on station, but had omitted to tell them to prepare lines, and yes they did all jump ashore when he gave the order. Oh what fun. . . of course the crew got the blame, but no I don't have much regard for them as skippers.
Navy types seem to be much better but again from a very small sample, my experience of navy in a mobo is a recipe for a shouting war and grazed gelcoat.
It takes all sorts its part of the fun of sailing about.
Navy types seem to be much better but again from a very small sample, my experience of navy in a mobo is a recipe for a shouting war and grazed gelcoat.
It takes all sorts its part of the fun of sailing about.
Sgeir
Well-Known Member
The late and greatly missed Superstrath was a MN navigation officer. He didn't want to be a RN officer, but they kept offering him a post. Eventually, he agreed to go out with them for three of four days on a minesweeper or destroyer just to see what they were like.
He said it was absolute chaos, and at point they were charging up the North Sea in pitch darkness with the bridge under the command of the chief steward (or whatever the RN equivalent is). He found the whole experience to be very unprofessional and quite scary at times. I suggested that perhaps he's just got them on a bad week; he looked at me as though I was bonkers.
He said it was absolute chaos, and at point they were charging up the North Sea in pitch darkness with the bridge under the command of the chief steward (or whatever the RN equivalent is). He found the whole experience to be very unprofessional and quite scary at times. I suggested that perhaps he's just got them on a bad week; he looked at me as though I was bonkers.
rosewood
Well-Known Member
I was in Poole a couple of years ago. Bloke on his boat with his wife and kids. He wasn't ex military he was still in the navy. Gave orders to his wife in a way that I would be far too scared to give to mine. She would likely give me a clip round the ear. His wife didn't seem to mind but it didn't look or sound like too much fun on his boat. He constantly explained to her why and how she had done something wrong in a very clipped fashion.
FishyInverness
Well-Known Member
WestWittering
Well-Known Member
All good & well - what does his crew think :wink: ?
Di
Di
wotayottie
Well-Known Member
They call themselves a "force" in the police and I suppose they have the same sort of command and control habits. My best sailing pal is ex plod and stopping him becoming the de facto skipper even on my boat is difficult if not impossible. I used to run a big business so I guess I'm used to leadership but its very different in a business environment where you cannot simply issue orders in the same way. So I tend to sit back and let him do the macho bit - he's competent so we do achieve the end result which after all is what management is about. Results. In that sense he's being managed even if he doesnt realise it. 
[70521]
Well-Known Member
Depends on the individual. I've sailed with some fantastic and some dreadful ex-military types; I continue to sail with the fantastic ones.
Plevier
Well-Known Member
Hey Camelia we agree on something!
I did my DS course with an instructor who was ex RAF fast jet pilot. The whole crew nearly mutinied and we all complained to the school afterwards. He was very competent in his skills but incapable of transferring those skills and his manner was intolerable.
I did my CS and YM prep with an instructor who was an ex Marine. He was brilliant.
I have a crew member who is ex RAF fast jet pilot, now a training captain for an airline, and extremely good.
There are all sorts.
So none of the poll answers is suitable!
AMCD300
Well-Known Member
So that means that in your chosen career you either made it to the very top or consider yourself a failure. Eager to know what it was you did before retirement...I had to check your profile to make sure we didn't have Sir Richard Branson in the house...
Late Entry army officers or their RAF equivalent, Branch Officers, are recruited from the Enlisted ranks, and are people who may have already served 20+ years in the ranks. Often they made it to Warrant Officer (i.e. the highest non-commissioned rank you can achieve) before applying for their Commission. More often than not these people are in their late 30's or early 40's and as a consequence Major/Squadron Leader is likely to be the highest rank they can realistically achieve due to the relatively short time remaining until formal retirement age. Moreover, many 'cap badges' do not allow LE officers to progress above Major (such as the Royal Signals) unless they transfer to the 'regular' stream.
People also leave the Service as a Major, Squadron Leader or Lieutenant Commander in their mid-to-late 30's having joined the military straight from university, moving on to make full careers afterwards. What, then has a person's rank on exiting the Service got to do with their ability to lead, let alone skipper a yacht?
Sigh.
One thing I have learned incidentally; no-one is 'only' anything...
Andy
Seajet
...
My Father volunteered for the Navy in WWII, and has a deep seated hatred of ' Naval Officers ', as he points out, show one who got promoted on sheer skill, not via the old boys' network, family connections or masons...
When we first visited Cowes around 1974 I had to retsrain Dad from ' christening ' the pillar outside the RYS, " Officers And Gentlemen Only ", and I agree with him !
I berthed alongside a Vancouver 27, years ago, the owner could not have been more unpleasant, trying the " we're leaving at dawn " routine ( " Fine, off you go, we'll be tied onto the buoy ! " ) and just watched my novice crew try to secure us as I motored into the strong tide.
Next morning he had a go at the harbour staff about the mooring, " I saay, theyt's not how we do it in the Navvyyy "...
He was completely wrong and I got an insight into why various mutininies happened, git !
When we first visited Cowes around 1974 I had to retsrain Dad from ' christening ' the pillar outside the RYS, " Officers And Gentlemen Only ", and I agree with him !
I berthed alongside a Vancouver 27, years ago, the owner could not have been more unpleasant, trying the " we're leaving at dawn " routine ( " Fine, off you go, we'll be tied onto the buoy ! " ) and just watched my novice crew try to secure us as I motored into the strong tide.
Next morning he had a go at the harbour staff about the mooring, " I saay, theyt's not how we do it in the Navvyyy "...
He was completely wrong and I got an insight into why various mutininies happened, git !
tim_ber
Well-Known Member
All depends upon the person really.
Look at Pete Goss - great bloke and great skipper (he didn't always sail solo).
'Bear' Grylls - ex SAS - skippered a rib acroos the Atlantic I think (read the book too long ago) - according to book he was a good skipper and he seems like a nice bloke too.
Chay Blyth I'm not so sure about.
The best skippers are the calm ones.
Look at Pete Goss - great bloke and great skipper (he didn't always sail solo).
'Bear' Grylls - ex SAS - skippered a rib acroos the Atlantic I think (read the book too long ago) - according to book he was a good skipper and he seems like a nice bloke too.
Chay Blyth I'm not so sure about.
The best skippers are the calm ones.