Are boat surveyors worth the money?

[Nostrodamus]

Having recently spent most of my life savings on buying a boat I did what I had to do in employing a boat surveyor. It is good to have a professional second opinion and the insurance company wanted a copy of the survey.
Having now lived aboard the said boat for a while I have found just how many things he missed and wonder if I could actually have done a better job myself.
Do you think you could do better and are they worth the money?

 

[JayBee]

I suppose the answer has to be that some surveyors are worthy of their fees and others are not.

When we bought our boat some years ago, we employed a surveyor who contacted us by phone, (from the other end of the country), reported no problems and was enthusiastic about the condition of the boat and the asking price.

On the strength of this we went ahead with the purchase before receiving a written copy of the survey report.

When the report turned up, with the surveyor's invoice, it contained lengthy descriptions of items of the boat's gear and fittings that just didn't exist and never had.

We raised the obvious queries in a detailed response to every dodgy paragraph in the report. Result - deafening silence and nothing more heard.

We tore up the invoice and reconciled ourselves to the fact that we had bought a boat without a proper survey. Fortunately, a few subsequent problems turned out to be very minor.

The surveyor, a charming and plausible elderly man, had a letterhead proclaiming his membership of a host of professional organisations, but at the end of the day caveat emptor is the best advice, as always.

 

[Twister_Ken]

In my case, yes. The survey revealed problems that let me negotiate the price down and agree to share the rectification costs with the vendor. Saved me a few thousand, I got a better boat, and it cost only a few hundred.

 

[Sans Bateau]

It's much like any survey, they can only report on what they find at the time of that survey. The things they are most likely to focus on is the asset sound. Whether its a house or a boat, after you have spent time getting to know your pride an joy you will find things, but balance the time you have spent against the time the surveyor spent.

If however the things that you have found are fundamental to the security of the fabric of the boat, or its seaworthness, and they were 'visible', then I'd be on the phone to bloke.

 

[Mark-1]

Having recently spent most of my life savings on buying a boat I did what I had to do in employing a boat surveyor. It is good to have a professional second opinion and the insurance company wanted a copy of the survey.
Having now lived aboard the said boat for a while I have found just how many things he missed and wonder if I could actually have done a better job myself.
Do you think you could do better and are they worth the money?

I suppose the way to decide is to get hold of the list of things that a capable surveyor should check, and decide which you or I couldn't do. Maybe somebody can someone point to such a list online?

That completely ignores the value of a professionally written survey as a negotiating tool.

 

[[2574]]

Do you think you could do better and are they worth the money?

By my experience, no. I think the surveyor whom we employed when we bought our boat was on very good quality waccy-baccy. I have no other method of reconciling his report with the actual condition of the boat once we got to know her.

rob

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Having now lived aboard the said boat for a while I have found just how many things he missed and wonder if I could actually have done a better job myself.
Do you think you could do better and are they worth the money?

It depends on the value of the boat. You would not spend £500 on a survey on a £5k boat. It also depends on how "practical" you are. Increasingly these days, young people havent learned how to strip and rebuild their first old banger, they havent had to make and mend simple electrical equipment - they havent acquired the level of practical skills their fathers had, and so they dont know what they are looking at in checking a boat out themselves.

But if you are a practical hands on type, then you can do most of what a surveyor does and some of it a fair bit better because you have much more time than is economic for him. That said I've never forgotten a Prout cat I once bought. Sure I found defects the surveyor didnt but he found early stage osmosis when I didnt know what to look for. That saved me £3.5k - the full cost of the treatment that the vendor had to cough up.

So my reckoning is that the best course is a combination of a detailed inspection by a practically minded would be owner followed by a survey. Belts and braces.

 

[E39mad]

It depends upon how knowledgable you are about boats, its construction and ancilliary equipment and also how much you are spending.

Personally even though I like to think I can see most things I would get a basic structural survey carried out as an insurance policy on anything over £10000. That should cover, hull to deck joint, osmosis, bulkheads and keel bolts. You need to employ an marine engineer seperately to check the engine and a rigger if desired for related items

 

[aluijten]

Having only a single experience in this area myself, I'm tempted to say no. Point is that, to my opinion, they spend so much time on trivia (things I can easy see for myself) that little time is left to investigate the 'hidden' problems. I do understand the problem of the surveyor as well. They must use a 'template' for their inspection, and there is no way for them to understand what you consider to be a trivial matter. Also the real issues (state of engine, hidden defects in hull, rigging problems) can be near impossible to detect unless you start taking things apart. That may be a problem as well. I'd say the use of a surveyor is very much related to you own skills in this area. If you have technical insight and experience with boats, I see little use for a surveyor. Then again if you have none of the above, a surveyor can be of very good use to you.

 

[Bloater]

Normally a surveyor will not test anything electrical nor will they test the engines. That means the battery isolator won't be swiched on. If the water tanks are empty the plumbing won't be tested either. Everything else is included though...

 

[Bloater]

If you are going to employ a surveyor then go and spend time with him yourself and ask questions, you will get a better indication from him directly rather than trying to decypher all the caveats in the report.

 

[prv]

Everything else is included though...

Plenty seem to exclude the rig (apart from a very cursory glance), and the sails if they're in bags.

Pete

 

[Boo2]

Normally a surveyor will not test anything electrical nor will they test the engines. That means the battery isolator won't be swiched on. If the water tanks are empty the plumbing won't be tested either. Everything else is included though...

Except they won't go up the mast, or unscrew anything, or...

Boo2

 

[Nostrodamus]

Well mine found my fire extinguishers and a gas hose were out of date and the insurance company insisted I replace them. It took good money for this.
He did want to see the boat both in and out the water which cost me a lot more and he started the engine.

 

[Tranona]

There is a big difference between what one can see from a static inspection and what you discover from living with a complex boat - or even a relatively simple one. The purpose of the surveyor's report is to satisfy you that the boat is as described by the vendor as you have no comeback (to the vendor) after you have accepted the boat. It is unreasonable to expect the surveyor to find everything - he will be concentrating on the key things that will affect the safety or value of the boat. These are the items that you need to know about in settling the price with the vendor and equally those that if the surveyor gets wrong could lead to a claim against him.

You are right in one sense - if you have the knowledge you are likely to find as much about many things as he will, but on the other hand his experience will find things that you miss.

 

[Chrissie]

I do check electrics and water systems, and rigging as far as I can reach (no I dont go up the mast,) its amazing how many people dont arrange for water or power or fuel to be available, I always tell them to in the contract, or I cant test properly.
I reckon I am worth the money

 

[fastjedi]

Can also depend on the nature of the seller ..... My experience goes something like this

1. I look at 10 or so boats, qualifying them out after 15 mins of viewing

2. I find one I like and spend an hour or two looking very closely

3. On the basis of 3 or 4 issues that need addressing immediately, I make an offer 10% below the asking price with a full expanation

4. Seller refuses my offer (he has every right to do so)

5. Next buyer comes along and makes a better offer which the seller accepts

6. Surveyer identifies the same issues. Buyer revises offer below mine (because I didn't count my time in the price reduction)

7. Seller accepts the revised offer .... either because he feels commited to the sale or trusts the surveyers opinion above mine.

So ..... on that basis I would have to say YES, although as others have suggested, I would always carry out my own detailed inspection. Another challenge has to do with the surveyors ability to create a report. A proportion of surveyers most certainly wouldn't have 'GCSE English' after their name or are simpley careless when editing a previous report as the basis for the next (Every marine survey I have seen has suffered this issue to some extent)

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I look on surveyors as one of lifes unfortunate necessities. It's wise to get a second opinion when buying a boat and the rest of the time they are needed simply so that you can get insurance.
Every survey I've had has identified something which I had not noticed so they've been reasonably helpful.
Whether they represent value for money is harder to answer. They are a bit like taxes, you've got to pay for them but it's difficult to convince yourself that you get much in return.

 

[prv]

A proportion of surveyers most certainly wouldn't have 'GCSE English' after their name or are simpley careless when editing a previous report as the basis for the next (Every marine survey I have seen has suffered this issue to some extent)

Agreed. Although it's not confined to marine surveys, as both house surveys I've had done have suffered from the same rushed copy/paste effect.

(The second house survey also found fault with the condensate drain on the boiler, despite it being a non-condensing type and hence entirely lacking any such fitting.)

Pete

 

[Tory Edric]

By all means hire a surveyor for a 16 year old boat...I would very strongly suggest that you also have a mobile marine mechanic go on a water test in this boat.....If it costs you a grand for these two opinions it is well worth it..boats are not as reliable as cars...corrosion from moisture and time affects everything in a boat....Boat parts and repairs are about 3 times more expensive than automotive repairs..and...boats are at least 5 times less reliable than cars...These repair situations are even more exaggerated with salt water use.......Trust me on this one...i have a lot of experience in this area.......I have seen 15 grand boats that need 10 grand in hidden repairs.......I could make a list of 30 or 40 items that commonly go wrong in boats 3 to 5 years old old .....Rod Fenton.....Boat Club of Fort Myers