ARC 2006, Return Journey

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alan8376

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As a new comer to the forum, and reading that the boats are gathering in the Canaries ready for the off in November. I was wondering! How is the return leg home organised and when? Not all will sail off westwards? I suspect some of the crews will only do the out leg. Are there usually enough volunteers to crew the boats back ?
 
Called Arc Europe, boats leave May from Antigua or Jacksonville to Bermuda, then to the Azores, spend 2 weeks there then either to Lagos or Plymouth type area unless you want to go somewhere specific. I did the trip in 2004 and it was fairly easy to get on a boat using the arc website also works out quite well cuz the leg to Bermuda is about 7 days so you'll have a fair idea if you'll get on with the people for the rest of the journey if you don't already know them.
 
Re: ARC, Why no Regulation by MCA?

Are there usually enough volunteers to crew the boats back ?
__________________________________________________

Volunteer Crew? Don't make me laugh!

Many of these yachts are actually Charter Companies, people are paying good money to be there. The only volunteering for these is their choice in being there, cos it aint free! /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

One of my MCA rants, is that although these boats are a commercial operation, many/most do not satisfy the MCA manning rules. Presumably they enforce the 'racing, going/returning to/from a race rule' as an exemption, which is ridiculous. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

I wonder how many are coded for commercial use?
The MCA don't know, because they are absent & don't check!
The MCA attitude is, we have spot inspections in the Solent/Med, but prefer to wait for an incident to occur on any British flagged ARC boats - then MAIB can adjudicate! Alternatively, they have advised that if not coded/correctly manned, could be an insurance issue, after an incident. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

Since, MCA have rules, they should be enforced, otherwise they may as well bin 'em! /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Re: ARC, Why no Regulation by MCA?

I did ARC Europe in 2002. As I recall, there were no commercial pay-per-berth boats in the fleet. For a start the rally is much longer than the ARC, also it is less popular - 20 boats v 200+.

Certainly there are quite a few boats operating on the ARC every year selling berths but not operating as properly registered charter vessels but then whose legislation does it fall under? The event runs between the Canaries and St Lucia and the boats operate under a wide variety of flags so who is to police them?

Incidentally there will be far fewer cash berths available this year with the demise of the Challenge Business. I wonder how that will affect demand for berths on other boats. It has to be tempting to take on a couple of paying crew to help with the costs of your cruise.
 
Re: ARC, Why no Regulation by MCA?

[ QUOTE ]
Are there usually enough volunteers to crew the boats back ?[ QUOTE ]


Lots of the boats are shipped back to the UK.
 
Re: ARC, Why no Regulation by MCA? Profit is no excuse!

"selling berths but not operating as properly registered charter vessels but then whose legislation does it fall under? the boats operate under a wide variety of flags so who is to police them?"

As far as British flagged vessels, the MCA!
There are 'strict' regulations, possibly being flouted.
If an unfortunate incident should occur, is it fair, to depend upon insurance cover (or lack of because rules were broken) to do the policing?

The ARC fleet is known. Charter boats, if coded, are also known to the MCA.
Shouldn't be too difficult to police. I'll volunteer if they have a manpower shortage.

They are starting from Spanish Territory, so Spain probably have some responsibility as well. MCA prevent commercial vessels sailing from UK ports if incorrectly manned, so where is the problem?

If you take a trip (even freeby) on JST boats, you expect that the Skipper, is properly qualified (bet they are not just commercially endorsed for 150 Nm from a safe haven). So, whats the difference between them & any other 'commercial' vessel. They operate within the rules (& as a charity, is a heavy cost). Why should an AWB get away with it? The rules were made under SOLAS - Safety of Life at Sea, not to be ignored to increase profit margins.

If you simply decide to 'share' expenses, then you do so 'at your own risk'.
However, if the 's--t hits the fan', that fact will not exonerate the skipper/owner from responsibility, even in the Solent.
 
Re: Why do we need regulation?

Arc still do an inspection of the boats for safety kit before setting off and there were no paying berths on the fleet when I did it either, it was all families who came out on the Arc the previous November as above, its much much smaller than the Arc so I think its a lot better, plus the Azores are gorgeous and worth the trip alone.
 
Re: Why do we need regulation?

Brian,

"some of us of a certain age started sailing before all this MCA coding nonsense"

Noah, who also goes back before MCA, even built the ark to a code he'd been given, took a little trip & apparently survived.
However, he wasn't doing it for commercial purposes, with paying punters.

"I think people who go sailing whether on own boats or paying for berths, are adventurers and don't need protecting with regulations".

Really?
So we can rip up all those bits of paper then?

Would you be happy to trust your nearest & dearest to someone you'd never met, had no knowledge of their competancy, who may have won the lottery last week & decided it was a wizard idea to buy a boat & cross the pond?

If you have any doubts about that idea, at which point between total freedom (sometimes called anarchy) & total regulation, would you chose.

Regulations are there for a purpose.
eg Even Bus drivers have to prove they can drive.
 
Re: Why do we need regulation?

Al

You know only to well the stringent ruling we have to go through for our MCA coding as well as RYA inspections.

You were asked

How many accidents occur in boating on coded and un-coded vessels?

well,

How many gun crimes occur with licensed and un-licensed firearms?
How many car accidents occur in insured or un-insured vehicles?

The outcome on licensed, insured and coded accidents in a court of law, although still painful, are eased a tad!

I would much rather sail on a vessel which has been checked twenty times than one that hasn't been checked.

If the skipper is a skipper who ignores advice which is put in place for the safety of his vessel crew and himself, what kind of skipper is he?

I would not take fee paying crew across the pond on uncoded vessels, Neptune or Poseiden have a habit of bitting the butt of those who take the pee!!!!!!

Better safe and sound, than dead in the ground.

Water tight bulkheads, now this is a question not a statement, if you are crossing the pond and have fee paying customers regardless of profit margin shouldn't the vessel be '0' coded?

Medical kit for a '0' coded vessel is vast, it include's controlled drugs, 'giving sets', drips, and even body bags!!!!!

Old or bold? Never Old AND Bold eh?

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Which one are you Al?

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bullet /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Re: Why do we need regulation?

"if you are crossing the pond and have fee paying customers regardless of profit margin shouldn't the vessel be '0' coded?"

Of Course.
& So should the skipper.

"Which one are you Al?"

AJ, I aint the one with a 'significant birthday' next week - on halloween! I've seen the tattoo - 666 isn't it? /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Re: Why do we need regulation?

( /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)


You see, thats why you need me!

It was when I was in me old job, yeah, where they used to call me 'Lap-Top', yeah, they picked on me, yeah, and, and, and they wrote '999' on me head, see, it wern't '666' honest it wern't and no mistake!!!!

Just cause me dad's from Goa and, and me mum's from Llanharry, it don't mean I aint got feelings you know. /forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

Anyone up for a lamb buna?

/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
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