affinite
Well-known member
No idea but I cant imagine theres much of a Liveaboard community up there in the Winter.
Ironically, I did consider a trip up into the Sea of Marmara and the Black Sea but that's up towards Russia isnt it ? ......
Apartment v Yacht in the med
- Thread starter dilly
- Start date
No idea but I cant imagine theres much of a Liveaboard community up there in the Winter.
Ironically, I did consider a trip up into the Sea of Marmara and the Black Sea but that's up towards Russia isnt it ? ......
KellysEye
Active member
>Afternoon guys and girls. I am looking to buy a yacht 40ft. Upto 53ft, but my wife wants a apartment
I suggest you both come to an agreement if you want to stay married.
I suggest you both come to an agreement if you want to stay married.
colind3782
Well-known member
We looked at both and, finding that we could buy an older (1988) 33'boat for a quarter of the price of a one-bedroomed apartment with the option of moving elsewhere if we got bored with the location, it was a no-brainer.
However, it's purely a personal choice for the OP's wife.
However, it's purely a personal choice for the OP's wife.
chrisgee
Member
You could buy a nice apartment in Poros Cephalonia and my Beneteau 411 for around £115.00 and have the best of both worlds!!
Sail in the spring and summer and rent out the flat (holiday lets) to pay your sailing costs for the year ,then live in the flat for the Winter.
Olianta
New member
Re: Apartment v Yacht i
The Black Sea is colder than the Med in winter and spring. There is a well protected marina in Sozopol, Bulgaria (90 nm northwest from the Bosphorus) where you can leave your boat in the water or haul it out. You will not find any live aboard community there except during the summer months when both the marina and the town, as well as all Bulgarian Black Sea coast get overcrowded and noisy. You will find no islands to hop around and not so many anchorages. Wind is predominantly thermal - sea breeze alternating with land breeze, though during the winter you can experience strong northerlies. Life is relatively cheaper than Greece and Turkey and you can easily socialise with local people. Some have sailed along the Black Sea coast counterclockwise during the summer but now you can forget of Russia and Ukraine (even before the conflict bureaucracy procedures for yachting people were costly and tiresome).
Rumen
The Black Sea is colder than the Med in winter and spring. There is a well protected marina in Sozopol, Bulgaria (90 nm northwest from the Bosphorus) where you can leave your boat in the water or haul it out. You will not find any live aboard community there except during the summer months when both the marina and the town, as well as all Bulgarian Black Sea coast get overcrowded and noisy. You will find no islands to hop around and not so many anchorages. Wind is predominantly thermal - sea breeze alternating with land breeze, though during the winter you can experience strong northerlies. Life is relatively cheaper than Greece and Turkey and you can easily socialise with local people. Some have sailed along the Black Sea coast counterclockwise during the summer but now you can forget of Russia and Ukraine (even before the conflict bureaucracy procedures for yachting people were costly and tiresome).
Rumen
Mrnotming
New member
In 2004/5 we were berthed in Empuriabrava, near Roses and Cap Creus.
There were many "yacht at the bottom of the garden" properties there for sale.
We agonised, then I realised that this would become a his and hers thing, and the boat would only serve as a large garden shed.
The job list on the boat would have been added to, so as to justify its existence, and at this date our cruising in the Med was not far advanced.
So we sailed away after two years berthing, and were very glad we did not swallow the bait. Many of the sights and sounds we experienced in further cruising far outweighed the lifestyle we would have had, tethered, as it were, by a house.
The very thing we were in the first instance trying to escape.
Meantime, the Russians got rich from oil and the prices of the properties went up by treble the cost.
Also there was a huge degree of infighting between the local council, and house owners, as to whether the berth allocated was forever, or a fixed term or in fact as they tried on, belonged to the local council.
Meantime the houses began to crumble as they were poorly built originally.
I agree with everything written in this thread so far, and it was an interesting read!
Just thought I would add my experience , as the song goes"when temptation comes I fall right in"!
good
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nauticalnomad
Member
An apartment comes with strata management fees each month and a yacht comes with a maintenance budget requirement.... Apartment will raise or stay the same.. maybe drop 10%... A yacht not used for 12 months will lose 50% value.. Depends how much you like to sail. If you are self employed with a company you can always buy a "charter" yacht and market it at 5000 euros a day.. and use your tax money to upkeep the "charter boat".. Obviously times are tough at moment and the charter business is not very lucrative but thats not your problem...
Tranona
Well-known member
If only it were that easy everybody would be doing it! Anybody can be "self employed". However you may not find it easy to gain any tax advantage if you wish to use the boat yourself, nor to find any charter work to gain any income. Plus you may well find additional barriers if you attempted to do that sort of thing in Spain, where the OP wants go.
Jamesuk
Active member
Apartment if you want to stay married,
Boat if you want to get a divorce or rarely see your wife.
This is not a joke.
A boat is testing to a relationship unless you both want it.
A boat is a constant cost, it breaks, it leaks, for 100k you wont get air conditioning generally. The Med is hot and very hot for the busy months. Mooring in a marina is very expensive.
A flat goes up in value generally and it is a good base to go on charter yachts to get that "buzz" you crave. You can also "lend" your flat to friends and familiy for whatever arrangement you can think of but I would never risk a boat, I even get upset when marina staff move "the boat I look after" around the marina without asking usually because they scratch it some how and I have watched them screw up on smaller easier to handle boats. Once you are bored of the Med you can sell up and do something else with perhaps £200k but with a 100k boat by that time it will be worth £30k (Unless it is a Hallberg Rassy) and you very well may have spent £30k on it and buyers are once a year.
David buy a flat for £85k and have £15 k for lots of charter holidays on different yachts ;-) Make a deal!
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Squeaky
New member
Good morning:
There is one thing that I notice that no one has commented on concerning purchasing an apartment and that is "what do you propose to do to occupy your time?" I am talking about the time during the day which you used to use to earn a living. I have seen it happen many times for couples to buy an apartment/house in a foreign land and appear perfectly happy for the first six months as they explore the local area and find their way around only to suddenly find themselves bored stiff with nothing to do once this phase is finished.
Once a person retires I am convinced they MUST find something to occupy the time they used to spend working. Without a hobby or interest to occupy themselves they will find themselves hanging out at the local boozer with other bored ex-pats wasting their time and money not to mention the damage to their physical and mental health.
The purchase of a yacht will go a long way to providing an answer to this problem. The first year or two will be spent acquiring gear you want and/or fixing problems you only discover after purchase and later maintenance will always be on hand to fill in any unfilled time.
This same problem does not seem to apply to wives who have been full time housewives as their time will be filled with the normal household routine whether in an apartment or yacht. However I think it would take a pretty special wife to give up the mod-cons and advantages of home to managing a household on a cramped and inconvenient average sized yacht even with the benefits of meeting new people and having lots of adventures from time to time. There is a good reason why most of the ex-pats one finds hanging around the local boozers are predominately male - that is because their wives are on board doing the things required to manage a home.
Another negative which seems to come up regardless of your choice and that is aging parents and/or grandchildren. I have seen many wives insist on giving up the cruising life after a half dozen years to return home to deal with aging parents or assist in or supervise the raising of grand-children.
I suggest you retain your shore base and purchase a yacht with the view of cruising for a few years before the above problems arise so you have a base to which you can return. Sure as God made little green apples you will eventually reach the age when living abroad or cruising will no longer appeal to you and I am fairly sure your wife will reach this point long before you do.
Add to all this the question of retaining good health and you have a perfect recipe for disaster if you cut all ties with home and sail off in to the sunset.
Cheers
Squeaky
There is one thing that I notice that no one has commented on concerning purchasing an apartment and that is "what do you propose to do to occupy your time?" I am talking about the time during the day which you used to use to earn a living. I have seen it happen many times for couples to buy an apartment/house in a foreign land and appear perfectly happy for the first six months as they explore the local area and find their way around only to suddenly find themselves bored stiff with nothing to do once this phase is finished.
Once a person retires I am convinced they MUST find something to occupy the time they used to spend working. Without a hobby or interest to occupy themselves they will find themselves hanging out at the local boozer with other bored ex-pats wasting their time and money not to mention the damage to their physical and mental health.
The purchase of a yacht will go a long way to providing an answer to this problem. The first year or two will be spent acquiring gear you want and/or fixing problems you only discover after purchase and later maintenance will always be on hand to fill in any unfilled time.
This same problem does not seem to apply to wives who have been full time housewives as their time will be filled with the normal household routine whether in an apartment or yacht. However I think it would take a pretty special wife to give up the mod-cons and advantages of home to managing a household on a cramped and inconvenient average sized yacht even with the benefits of meeting new people and having lots of adventures from time to time. There is a good reason why most of the ex-pats one finds hanging around the local boozers are predominately male - that is because their wives are on board doing the things required to manage a home.
Another negative which seems to come up regardless of your choice and that is aging parents and/or grandchildren. I have seen many wives insist on giving up the cruising life after a half dozen years to return home to deal with aging parents or assist in or supervise the raising of grand-children.
I suggest you retain your shore base and purchase a yacht with the view of cruising for a few years before the above problems arise so you have a base to which you can return. Sure as God made little green apples you will eventually reach the age when living abroad or cruising will no longer appeal to you and I am fairly sure your wife will reach this point long before you do.
Add to all this the question of retaining good health and you have a perfect recipe for disaster if you cut all ties with home and sail off in to the sunset.
Cheers
Squeaky
lindsay
Member
You don't stop sailing when you grow old. You grow old when you stop sailing.
Mrnotming
New member
Hi Dilly, and +1 Squeaky,
I have also heard the term "jumpaboard' used on here, to describe those who pick both ends of the hot season to cruise and layup the yacht or mobo for the intervening expensive time, in a dry port.Thus local regattas can be attended in UK and nearby isles. If there is weather for strawberries and cream and socialising so much the better.
Refreshed, the duo might then bail out via low cost flights to launch the nice clean boat.Bringing perhaps friends with them to help crew.
There are some good "dry ports" and the handling of the boats in and out is routine.
I have also heard the term "jumpaboard' used on here, to describe those who pick both ends of the hot season to cruise and layup the yacht or mobo for the intervening expensive time, in a dry port.Thus local regattas can be attended in UK and nearby isles. If there is weather for strawberries and cream and socialising so much the better.
Refreshed, the duo might then bail out via low cost flights to launch the nice clean boat.Bringing perhaps friends with them to help crew.
There are some good "dry ports" and the handling of the boats in and out is routine.
GrahamM376
New member
Funnily enough, SWMBO is the one least likely to want to sell the boat. Apartments in many Med locations are still at an all time low and, although they may increase in value over time, when you sell estate agents can hammer you for 5% + VAT and the tax man wants his share of your taxable asset so it's not hard to lose money.
dslittle
Well-known member
Having just been to the Notary this morning in relation to Succession Tax, I would never property abroad. Although not excessive in a percentage way, the taxes are far more than they would be in the UK in similar circumstances. A UK registered boat would not have incurred any local taxes. I would never buy a residence abroad when I could use my boat for the same job and have the benefit of being able to move it around...
Bertramdriver
Active member
DO NOT BUY AN APPARTMENT IN GREECE unless you speak Greek fluently and your brother in law is a Chief of Police of a large Greek city. Owning property in Greece is a short journey into dispair and madness and should not be seen as an investment. Even time share would be preferable. If your wife is adamant then go out and find somewhere to rent for a year to test the water. Then make a decision about buying.
If you buy a yacht it can be as comfortable as an apartment and if you fall out with the neighbours you can move on. The running casts would be higher but at least you would be able to sleep at night.
If you buy a yacht it can be as comfortable as an apartment and if you fall out with the neighbours you can move on. The running casts would be higher but at least you would be able to sleep at night.
Jamesuk
Active member
If owning a flat/house is "not hard" to lose money then owning a yacht is "really easy" to lose money in exchange for "bad experiences".
Just buy the yacht and then you can come back to ybw/forum as a "boat owner". I think the wife should be treated to a hotel stay every other day until she begins to like the boat and enjoys the fact you went and did your "professional" yacht master and she did her Day skipper "separately".
I would agree with Graham that owning a flat has it's own draw backs.
Look if you want to spend 100 k on a boat I have a Wauquiez 40 that may interest you. although I would have to ask the owner if he wants to sell it. (hardly ever uses it, lovely yacht)
Carmel2
New member
Meet quite a few folk with holiday homes, biggest complaint is "we only ever come here"
GrahamM376
New member
We actually have a boat on the Algarve and an apartment near Lisbon. My wife inherited a third share of the apartment from her mother and we're in the process of buying the others out as both have houses and aren't interested in it and we've been paying the running costs for the past few years anyway.
With the OP's £100k, he could have both. Plenty of cheap boats around and a small apartment not too far from Algarve beaches can be had for £60k or less if tourist and ex-pat areas are avoided. Apartment running costs - rates and condo charges (if owners self manage) are far cheaper than the UK but, beware of inheritance rules and taxes when selling.