AngusMcDoon
Well-Known Member
A problem I've had with no windlass after a bit of a blow is getting the sodding thing out again.
Anyone using a Fortress (or Manson Racer) as bower anchor?
- Thread starter chal
- Start date
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Dear brian
all fitted as per the instructions with the exception that i deemed it seaman like to use duralac on the ss bolts
for obvious reasons. i never "chuck-out" loadsa chain but pay it out carefully.
the first time i uesd it set at the second attempt then held.
The next time single handed it failed to set at all. i went out into the river & changed to the trusty Bruce went back the the same anchoring spot & the Bruce set first time.
ditchcrawler
Well-Known Member
I use my Fortress as a lunch hook and have never tried to see what happens on the turn of there tide.I have found that it sets fine in the east coast mud.However if the bottom is harder it can skip and once it does that it will not set.It has to be set very slowly to make it dig in.Generally I use my main anchor which is a Rocna (Debate to ensue)
BruceDanforth
Well-Known Member
onesea
Well-Known Member
OK I am Danforth Fan, and have fortress as main anchor... So I am biasesd, the only other anchor I can see that compares potentially is the knox...
As for problems setting, I have never had problem with fortress or danforth in sand or mud...
Lower anchor to sea bed double the length, just hold till you can feel the anchor is straight. So to 3 x depth and feel weight come on slack down easy holding a little weight till 4 x Water Depth. Bring boat up on anchor, cannot think of when it has not worked.. Unless very weedy or very stony...
As for problems setting, I have never had problem with fortress or danforth in sand or mud...
Lower anchor to sea bed double the length, just hold till you can feel the anchor is straight. So to 3 x depth and feel weight come on slack down easy holding a little weight till 4 x Water Depth. Bring boat up on anchor, cannot think of when it has not worked.. Unless very weedy or very stony...
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Interestingly - not one single person has mentioned the Racer?
It seems all anchors are a compromise and people love to be negative (seldom admitting the deficiencies of their own choice)
Most people think surface area is an important characteristic of an anchor and the Fortress has the largest surface area per Stg and the largest surface area per kg. The OP wants a light anchor and the Fortress is probably the lightest anchor on the market, in terms of holding capacity. It has interesting credentials, some of the range are Classification Society endorsed as SHHP anchors. It is approved by the US Coastguard, and used on one of their newer 300t vessels. Its the anchor of choice for the 2014 Volvo race and the last Vendee Globe. Its the only anchor I can think of, excluding the Spade, that is demountable. Its the only anchor I know of (and maybe the only marine product) that has a no questions asked replacement policy (and given the heat focussed at another anchor maker - Fortress makes a very refreshing change - and maybe a role model, for all the marine industry). It does have a downside - it develops such good hold - they can be difficult to retrieve (and in strong winds are best laid with some type of trip line - they are easier to pull out backwards). Its available internationally. They can be difficult to store on a bow roller (but so can other anchors). I would not want to assemble it in a hurry or in the dark (some of the pieces are a bit small) but it can be assembled by a 10 year old. The company has been in business for 25 years, no historic embarassments.
The company has maintained the no questions asked replacement policy for those 25 years (and survives) - now does that not tell you something?
Interestingly the idea they do not turn with a change of tide tends to be apocryphal and contradicted by many who actually use them (of which there are tens of thousands worldwide).
I confess to using an Anchor Right Excel as a primary anchor, but it would cost 10's of thousands of A$ to rebuild the bridgedeck to carry a Fortress. We would need a new torsion bar, which runs fore and aft amidships between the cross beam and bridgedeck and no anchor justifies that expense. But whenever we go more than on an overnight or day trip - we carry our Fortress FX 23. It copes with mild weed, sand, mud and we have had no problem with it re-orientating.
It sets quickly, its easy to deploy from a dinghy and because it packs flat (even when assembled) its easy to store. (It can be tied to lifelines, cabin roof, flat on a transom - ours happens to fit in the bridgedeck locker). It is possible many people do not power set their anchors, which might lead to apocryphal tales of woe. It set quickly but can need some power to get the flukes properly engaged (the Fortress size recommendation in terms of surface area verges on extreme caution) as the anchor is big and needs a bit of a nudge to get it set correctly and deeply in harder substrates.
If our yacht was set up differently I would have no hestitation with using it for overnight work in known anchorages. On longer trips I would want to carry a Spade or Excel, as well (but I am in favour of at least 2 anchors on long trips of different designs). And I am not particularly supportive of carrying and relying on one big anchor - anchors are a compromise, give your self a choice.
Jonathan
It seems all anchors are a compromise and people love to be negative (seldom admitting the deficiencies of their own choice)
Most people think surface area is an important characteristic of an anchor and the Fortress has the largest surface area per Stg and the largest surface area per kg. The OP wants a light anchor and the Fortress is probably the lightest anchor on the market, in terms of holding capacity. It has interesting credentials, some of the range are Classification Society endorsed as SHHP anchors. It is approved by the US Coastguard, and used on one of their newer 300t vessels. Its the anchor of choice for the 2014 Volvo race and the last Vendee Globe. Its the only anchor I can think of, excluding the Spade, that is demountable. Its the only anchor I know of (and maybe the only marine product) that has a no questions asked replacement policy (and given the heat focussed at another anchor maker - Fortress makes a very refreshing change - and maybe a role model, for all the marine industry). It does have a downside - it develops such good hold - they can be difficult to retrieve (and in strong winds are best laid with some type of trip line - they are easier to pull out backwards). Its available internationally. They can be difficult to store on a bow roller (but so can other anchors). I would not want to assemble it in a hurry or in the dark (some of the pieces are a bit small) but it can be assembled by a 10 year old. The company has been in business for 25 years, no historic embarassments.
The company has maintained the no questions asked replacement policy for those 25 years (and survives) - now does that not tell you something?
Interestingly the idea they do not turn with a change of tide tends to be apocryphal and contradicted by many who actually use them (of which there are tens of thousands worldwide).
I confess to using an Anchor Right Excel as a primary anchor, but it would cost 10's of thousands of A$ to rebuild the bridgedeck to carry a Fortress. We would need a new torsion bar, which runs fore and aft amidships between the cross beam and bridgedeck and no anchor justifies that expense. But whenever we go more than on an overnight or day trip - we carry our Fortress FX 23. It copes with mild weed, sand, mud and we have had no problem with it re-orientating.
It sets quickly, its easy to deploy from a dinghy and because it packs flat (even when assembled) its easy to store. (It can be tied to lifelines, cabin roof, flat on a transom - ours happens to fit in the bridgedeck locker). It is possible many people do not power set their anchors, which might lead to apocryphal tales of woe. It set quickly but can need some power to get the flukes properly engaged (the Fortress size recommendation in terms of surface area verges on extreme caution) as the anchor is big and needs a bit of a nudge to get it set correctly and deeply in harder substrates.
If our yacht was set up differently I would have no hestitation with using it for overnight work in known anchorages. On longer trips I would want to carry a Spade or Excel, as well (but I am in favour of at least 2 anchors on long trips of different designs). And I am not particularly supportive of carrying and relying on one big anchor - anchors are a compromise, give your self a choice.
Jonathan
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sailorman
Well-Known Member
Dear brian
all fitted as per the instructions with the exception that i deemed it seaman like to use duralac on the ss bolts
i never "chuck-out" loadsa chain but pay it out carefully.
the first time i uesd it set at the second attempt then held.
The next time single handed it failed to set at all. i went out into the river & changed to the trusty Bruce went back the the same anchoring spot & the Bruce set first time.
Brian
what do you suggest i do with this anchor that fails to set
Brian@Fortress
Well-Known Member
Sailorman, it is a bit baffling as to why the anchor is not setting given it's sharpness, once again, unless:
• The clay bottom is hard as a brick, so the much denser Bruce can get some penetration into it.
• The boat is falling back too quickly and not giving the anchor much of a chance to dig in.
I might try setting the anchor initially with a shorter scope, like 2:1 or 3:1 to insure that the shank isn't somehow sinking below the flukes from the heavy weight of the chain. In this case, the flukes end up pointing upward instead of downward into the bottom.
This typically cannot occur when the Mud Palms are installed, as they force the flukes downward, but please give it a try and let me know.
Thanks,
Brian
Davy_S
Well-Known Member
I cannot comment on the ability of the Fortress to reset on the change in direction of the tide, simply because I have had no experience of its efficiency in such circumstances, however my experience as a Bar stool observer in the warmth of the Ionian sea are legendary. The Fortress anchor used as a stern anchor when going bow two in a typical med mooring is amazing in its ability to hold against Katabatics, ferry wash, you name it is top Dollar. I have seen Flotilla crews row out with a Fortress and hold twelve yachts safely, it is the Superman of all anchors in a straight scope without doubt, Rocnor, eat your heart out!
sailorman
Well-Known Member
just prior to changing back to the Bruce i did exactly that.
will try again,well before the 90 days
Brian@Fortress
Well-Known Member
just prior to changing back to the Bruce i did exactly that.
will try again,well before the 90 days
Don't be overly concerned with the 90 days, I will work out a refund with our local distributor / retailer where you bought it beyond then if necessary.
chal
Well-Known Member
Brian - bit cheeky to ask perhaps but would you mind recommending the right size for me? Given all the replies (I'm the OP) I am almost certain that I will be trying the Fortress: even if, say, something else held better under some circumstances, it's not that great if it's so heavy I can't use it. I'm going to make a cardboard model of it to make sure I can stow it on the foredeck, but I don't anticipate it being too much of a problem. It's unlikely that it will fit on the bow roller as I have a bowsprit, but the same would apply to lots of other anchors, and at least the Fortress is flat and I should be able to pick it up - I think it will tuck away under the inboard end of the bowsprit.
My boat is 31 feet LOD, but it's old (1930s and wooden) and heavy - I think about 8 tons. The FX 11 says it suits boats up to 32 feet, but that probably means of average weight. I'm assuming the FX 16 would be the best bet, though a previous poster says your sizing is very conservative.
My boat is 31 feet LOD, but it's old (1930s and wooden) and heavy - I think about 8 tons. The FX 11 says it suits boats up to 32 feet, but that probably means of average weight. I'm assuming the FX 16 would be the best bet, though a previous poster says your sizing is very conservative.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that, i will endeavour to make it work in out tidal conditions
Ariadne
Well-Known Member
Some good, some negative posts, for my tuppence worth they are great anchors. If it isn't setting then I would take a look at your anchoring technique, they ain't the same a big heavy Bruce or plough anchors and they do require a different approach to anchoring. The chain hits the bottom quite a bit before the anchor and it doesn't set if you try to anchor as you would with a big heavy anchor. Let it out nice and slow allowing the anchor to 'bite' then lay the chain out as slow as condition allow, have a brew and then go astern and dig it in; should hold now.We carried an FX11 as a kedge and used it loads of times with great results,only having a problem retrieving at times. We bent or main anchor (20Kg Delta) in Ibiza so used or spare Fortress FX37 as our main anchor for the rest of year. Admittedly it's on 10mm chain right through, but after getting used to a new technique of anchoring it held us without any problems. We again used it in the Canaries in soft sand or ground where the Delta doesn't hold, no problems at all even during wind shifts and gusts you associate with the Canaries.In the river Gambia (3rd biggest river in Africa), plenty of tide/current up to 5 kts at times and very soft mud, our Delta was a waste of time; the Fortress was brilliant. Held first time every time, never pulled out, never dragged. The biggest problem we have had with it is getting the thing back as it sets so well.Our little FX11 held us once in squall hitting 45kts at times for over 30 mins no problem, the Delta went walkabout!Fortress anchors, they do what they say on box.
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PetiteFleur
Well-Known Member
We used a Fortress on our Moody 33 as a bower anchor as the "plough" bower was useless. Never had a problem with it and it always held, East Coast mud. It was the next size up to that recommended. Now have a Manson bower which again is excellent and the Fortress has been relegated to the kedge - 10m chain + rope.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
by rights my Bruce is much too light @ 10Kg for my 11.2m boat but it does hold.
last year we went to The CIs & North Brittany so took more chain + a 15Kg Bruce. Now our boat does not carry weight forrard well as she is very fine in the Bow Dept.
this is why i decided on the FX 16 the correct weight/ size for the boat & lighter than the normal 10kg Bruce we use on the East Coast
Brian@Fortress
Well-Known Member
Robspop, I would recommend sizing up to the FX-16 if you are likely to encounter high winds (30+ knots) and poor holding bottoms like soft mud. There's not much of a weight gain either from the FX-11 to FX-16 to strain your back, just a hair over 3 lbs / 1.5 kg.
I can send you a drawing with dimensions if you like for a cardboard model. Just send an e-mail with your address to brian at fortressanchors.com
Regards,
Brian
P.s. Does anyone know how to delete images once you have uploaded them here? I have reached my limit.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
I ues photobucket as you get larger photos & easy to add/delete
Neeves
Well-Known Member
Sailorman,
Your experiences are interesting. The comment I hear of Bruce anchors is that they do not work so well in a cross section of seabeds in the smaller sizes. I have tried smaller Bruce, branded, copies in hard seabeds and can verify that in a seabed where the Bruces simply did not engage with the seabed a Supreme, Excel and Fortress, FX 23 - set without problem (I have not tried smaller models). Looking at the Bruces the issue appears to be the very blunt toe. I have a friend with a 35' yacht who is also a Lt Cmmdr in our naval reserves and he takes landing craft up the east coast and he believes a Bruce is most effective when over 50kg - and his comment is similar to others. A Bruce, of smaller sizes, does work in softer seabeds but with your range of cruising you look to have had a decent cross section of seabeds some of which have, I'd guess, been hard. Which might prove one cannot be too categorical about anchors.
Make a comment and someone, somewhere will have the exact opposite experience - but beware anecdotal information (as I have quoted), it is not always reliable!
But I would persist with the Fortress, too many find it invaluable and/or irreplacable
Jonathan
Your experiences are interesting. The comment I hear of Bruce anchors is that they do not work so well in a cross section of seabeds in the smaller sizes. I have tried smaller Bruce, branded, copies in hard seabeds and can verify that in a seabed where the Bruces simply did not engage with the seabed a Supreme, Excel and Fortress, FX 23 - set without problem (I have not tried smaller models). Looking at the Bruces the issue appears to be the very blunt toe. I have a friend with a 35' yacht who is also a Lt Cmmdr in our naval reserves and he takes landing craft up the east coast and he believes a Bruce is most effective when over 50kg - and his comment is similar to others. A Bruce, of smaller sizes, does work in softer seabeds but with your range of cruising you look to have had a decent cross section of seabeds some of which have, I'd guess, been hard. Which might prove one cannot be too categorical about anchors.
Make a comment and someone, somewhere will have the exact opposite experience - but beware anecdotal information (as I have quoted), it is not always reliable!
But I would persist with the Fortress, too many find it invaluable and/or irreplacable
Jonathan
Ariadne
Well-Known Member
The Bruce was designed to big and heavy, basically for holding semi-submersible platforms in place. They usually come in at around 15-25 tons or heavier with 25mm+ stud welded chain to suit, dropped (as set of 8) and set with the aid of an anchor handling tug then tensioned correctly with winches on the platform.
They were never designed for small boats, and have a nasty habit of collecting stones, then dragging all around an anchorage. People love or hate them (like any anchor!), but from my experience and seeing them in action - they ain't that good an anchor for small boats.
They were never designed for small boats, and have a nasty habit of collecting stones, then dragging all around an anchorage. People love or hate them (like any anchor!), but from my experience and seeing them in action - they ain't that good an anchor for small boats.