Anyone know who this was?

channel said:
Sorry, are you joking with this comment?
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Maybe we have just discovered who it was ?

It will be interesting to see the results of any enquiry. I distrust the comments of the staff until confirmed by independent witnesses for obvious reasons.

But leaving aside the marina lights issue, what does colregs say about the "conflict" between two boats, one entering and one leaving a narrow harbour entrance? In the entrance itself, both boats are restricted in ability to manoeuvre ( I wouldnt like to try a 180 in my boat in that entrance, and it would likely involve some shunting back and fore). The Balmoral is very shallow draft so I dont think there is an issue there. And even if common sense says "give way to the biggie" the colregs most certainly doesnt.

The yacht was in the entrance first so is the Balmoral the give way vessel?
 
The yacht went round a blind pillar far too fast and left himself no room to manoeuvre.

Never mind any colregs, he was not attempting to control his boat with any due care to others.
 
wotayottie said:
Maybe we have just discovered who it was ?

It will be interesting to see the results of any enquiry. I distrust the comments of the staff until confirmed by independent witnesses for obvious reasons.

But leaving aside the marina lights issue, what does colregs say about the "conflict" between two boats, one entering and one leaving a narrow harbour entrance? In the entrance itself, both boats are restricted in ability to manoeuvre ( I wouldnt like to try a 180 in my boat in that entrance, and it would likely involve some shunting back and fore). The Balmoral is very shallow draft so I dont think there is an issue there. And even if common sense says "give way to the biggie" the colregs most certainly doesnt.

The yacht was in the entrance first so is the Balmoral the give way vessel?
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Both boats aren't restricted in ability to manoeuvre, neither display the day signals for this. They are in a number of ways both commited though. I do take your point about it not being the nicest entrance, we will not really know the full facts without confirmation of the light situation at the marina. I am sure they have a procedure for the arrival of large vessels in the harbour and it is this procedure, or lack of it being followed that has led to this situation perhaps.

Both are power driven vessels, the yacht is crossing from the Balmoral's port side and is therefore the give-way vessel - Rule 15. If we play the rules by the book I think the yacht should have sounded one long blast as she was coming out from behind a breakwater - Rule 9 f. Rule 9 b probably makes an appearance too – as Balmoral was navigating between 2 breakwaters! My rule of self preservation would have stopped me crossing Balmorals bow!!

This guy got it wrong - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTol7gOeGaA
 
No, Wasn't me, strictly power and always obey the lights! Too much ill informed speculation going on here. From my view, Balmoral was almost stopped and there appeared to be plenty of room ahead of her for the yacht to cross. Probably looked far more dodgy than it was due to the perspective of the cameraman. Once committed the yacht didn't have a lot of other options.
Should have allowed more room before committing to the entrance and if he ignored the lights then he is a total cretin like all those others who ignore the lights including professional fishing boats!
 
PCUK said:
No, Wasn't me, strictly power and always obey the lights! Too much ill informed speculation going on here. From my view, Balmoral was almost stopped and there appeared to be plenty of room ahead of her for the yacht to cross. Probably looked far more dodgy than it was due to the perspective of the cameraman. Once committed the yacht didn't have a lot of other options.
Should have allowed more room before committing to the entrance and if he ignored the lights then he is a total cretin like all those others who ignore the lights including professional fishing boats!
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My main reason for posting the video on here and our club forum was to show people that it is a good idea to turn to port when leaving the marina, to open up your view of the harbour entrance. After looking at the video from outside of the entrance, I believe it is clear that the Balmoral captain saw the mast and reacted very quickly. I agree that once he rounded the wall, gunning the motor and going the "wrong" side of the Balmoral was the best thing to do. I agree with you veiws entirely about the lights.
Allan
 
went throught Watchet last night and had a good look around in the light of the video and comments on here.

the lights are normally automatic. last night I came in very late just before the automatic barrier came up. 2 yards ( literally!) outside the marina entrance, the lights changed to red. emergency stop in the light of recent comments and because a pal once got stuck on top of the lifting barrier. I believe I did some damage to stern gear as a result so I can well understand why people chance it - ambler gamblers so to speak.

as you come out of the marina entrance channel you are going reasonably briskly between two high walls which prevent you seeing what is coming into the outer harbour. you have to go briskly - the marina was badly designed and there are currents in the entrance channel that have caused numerous boats to hit the sides if they dawdle. Its a gun it and go situation.

I chose to turn left and circle in the outer harbour to sort fenders etc, but the yacht in front of me simply turned sharp right and straight out of the harbour. that is when he would have had first sight of the balmoral approaching and he would have had to make an instant decision to go for it. I dont think that doing a 180 would have been an option.

got to say I would have been a bit nervous about being in the outer harbour with the balmoral sharing the space. its now a small area that is well silted up at one end and the balmoral would have had to turn round. without doubt the most comfortable option would have been to go back into the marina sharpish

so in summary, once the guy concerned was for whatever reason in the marina entrance channel at the same time as the balmoral was approaching, I can see how he ended up doing what he did and might well have done exactly the same thing had it happened to me. so really it's all down to the marina lights and the practice that has grown up of occasionally ignoring them.

by the way, this was I believe the balmoral's first visit and there are no other big ship movements in whats left of that harbour.
 
Bosun Higgs said:
went throught Watchet last night and had a good look around in the light of the video and comments on here.

the lights are normally automatic. last night I came in very late just before the automatic barrier came up. 2 yards ( literally!) outside the marina entrance, the lights changed to red. emergency stop in the light of recent comments and because a pal once got stuck on top of the lifting barrier. I believe I did some damage to stern gear as a result so I can well understand why people chance it - ambler gamblers so to speak.

as you come out of the marina entrance channel you are going reasonably briskly between two high walls which prevent you seeing what is coming into the outer harbour. you have to go briskly - the marina was badly designed and there are currents in the entrance channel that have caused numerous boats to hit the sides if they dawdle. Its a gun it and go situation.

I chose to turn left and circle in the outer harbour to sort fenders etc, but the yacht in front of me simply turned sharp right and straight out of the harbour. that is when he would have had first sight of the balmoral approaching and he would have had to make an instant decision to go for it. I dont think that doing a 180 would have been an option.

got to say I would have been a bit nervous about being in the outer harbour with the balmoral sharing the space. its now a small area that is well silted up at one end and the balmoral would have had to turn round. without doubt the most comfortable option would have been to go back into the marina sharpish

so in summary, once the guy concerned was for whatever reason in the marina entrance channel at the same time as the balmoral was approaching, I can see how he ended up doing what he did and might well have done exactly the same thing had it happened to me. so really it's all down to the marina lights and the practice that has grown up of occasionally ignoring them.

by the way, this was I believe the balmoral's first visit and there are no other big ship movements in whats left of that harbour.
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Just one small point: on the visit in question the Balmoral left the outer harbour backwards so there was no "turning around" in the outer harbour.

Based on my one-off experience, there is plenty of room to swing round in a big loop within the outer harbour in order to get a good view of any incoming traffic before making an exit. To me this is sensible seamanship and there is no reason not to do it, other than saving 30 seconds.

You raise a good question about the sequencing of the lights in the marina entrance. There is no amber, so if you are committed when the lights turn red, you have no alternative but to pass on red. Hopefully in that situation the other side will remain red for long enough to allow you to pass.
 
Whenever I've come out of Watchet, it's always been towards the end of the sill opening time. Hence I would not turn to port as there is shallow water there. I'd turn to starboard towards the deeper water. I can't see that it is reasonable for someone who is coming into the harbour to expect someone going out of the harbour to steer towards shallow water on a falling tide.

I agree with Bosun Higgs that it is reasonable to go through the marina entrance at speed to maintain steerage way. I have to trust that other boats are obeying the lights.

I think Watchet is a winter destination anyway and I guess the chances of collision are less then in any case.

Cervisia's in Lymington at the moment, so it wasn't me!

[I always promise myself to not post after going on the lash, so sorry it this is controversial].
 
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I think it is a matter of degree. Just as the gate opens or closes there is still plenty of water to allow you to go far enough to port to open the view of the harbour entrance. As I have said above, my fear has always been fast boats rushing in. Had this incident happened with a fishing or leisure boat the cameras may not have been on.
Allan
 
Took this pic of Balmoral in Watchet a year or two after the Marina opened and on that occasion she came in and swung onto the wall.She really needs every inch of the harbour to do that .A real display of skill.

BalmoralWatchet.jpg




If the lights go red when your only a meter or so out obviously you are committed then but the lights allow time for you to get through. Anyone deliberately going against the red light is putting peoples lifes at risk and should be banned from the harbour IMHO.

PS I found this utube link showing her swinging onto the wall. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zROoiG_bF44&feature=related
 
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Interesting vid, note the small boat in the outer harbour at the same time (L/H side at the end of film)

graham said:
Took this pic of Balmoral in Watchet a year or two after the Marina opened and on that occasion she came in and swung onto the wall.She really needs every inch of the harbour to do that .A real display of skill.

BalmoralWatchet.jpg




If the lights go red when your only a meter or so out obviously you are committed then but the lights allow time for you to get through. Anyone deliberately going against the red light is putting peoples lifes at risk and should be banned from the harbour IMHO.

PS I found this utube link showing her swinging onto the wall. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zROoiG_bF44&feature=related
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trapezeartist said:
Just one small point: on the visit in question the Balmoral left the outer harbour backwards so there was no "turning around" in the outer harbour.

.
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At a guess that would be because of silting. There is now less depth in the outer harbour than in the marina, and yet I could not leave the moment the gates opened because I was still stuck on the bottom at the fuel berth. The Balmoral doesnt draw a lot but for her to turn inside the harbour hse has to put bows or stern well up.

Can't have been easy going out backwards!
 
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