Anyone here with experience repowering a Wly Sealord/Oceanlord with a Beta 43?

[dankilb]

I think the previous owners of our boat (Jen 42') went up a size too far (Beta 50 / 2.2L). This was probably due to availability (it was a dealer stock engine). It is a large beast - but thankfully fits where the Perkins M50 (hardly compact) went pretty neatly. We are overpowered (at 11 tonnes completely empty/dry in the slings). But 1800 gives a very comfy 7 knots!

 

[Tranona]

Just had another email from Andrew Growcoot at Beta. He is suggesting a 35 which has been fitted to a few Oceanlords.
Slower revving, sounds better again.
Looking at your photos, how do you access your stern gland?
Re the exhaust hose... no friends coming out from the UK in the near future?
I have been running my Volvo at between 1600 and 1800... any more than that it isn't fuel consumption that bothers me , lub oil consumption goes through the roof, even then it is a litre every 24 hours. Just one of many reasons for the repower.

Am I right that you have an Oceanlord rather than a Sealord. If so then a 35 really would not be a good idea. The quoted design displacement is 9.4 tonnes and a 35 would not achieve hull speed according to the calculations using Vicprop. You need 43hp for that, which the original Volvo was rated at. The Sealord is over 1 tonne lighter and will just make hull speed with 38hp (the original was a 36hp).

While hull speed is not something you use regularly, achieving that puts your 6 knot cruising speed in the working rev range of +/- 70% maximum, or 2200-2400 on 3600rpm engines and 1600-1800 on 2800rpm engines like the 43. If you went down to 35hp you would be 0.6 knots shy of hull speed and still have to run in the same rev range for cruising as the 38.

 

[Supertramp]

Accepting all the discussion about engine power, revs and hull speed, I would look carefully at space for the larger block and gearbox and access. I think the 43/50/60 series are a physically larger (and heavier) engine than the 35/38 The fuel filter is on the LHS looking aft - a sod to get at without side access. Beta should know the relative merits and must have done several Sealord/Oceanlord.

I have a Beta 60 in a roughly similar displacement boat. Cruising at 1500 to 1600 rpm is unstressed for boat and crew and the reserve power useful on occasion (many would say too much reserve power!). I have an underfloor installation so space is less of an issue.

John_morris pictures are excellent.

 

[Frank Holden]

Am I right that you have an Oceanlord rather than a Sealord. If so then a 35 really would not be a good idea. The quoted design displacement is 9.4 tonnes and a 35 would not achieve hull speed according to the calculations using Vicprop. You need 43hp for that, which the original Volvo was rated at. The Sealord is over 1 tonne lighter and will just make hull speed with 38hp (the original was a 36hp).

While hull speed is not something you use regularly, achieving that puts your 6 knot cruising speed in the working rev range of +/- maximum, or 2200-2400 on 3600rpm engines and 1600-1800 on 2800rpm engines like the 43. If you went down to 35hp you would be 0.6 knots shy of hull speed and still have to run in the same rev range for cruising as the 38.

I have a Sealord.
Beta sent me info from TS marine suggesting the 35 was the way to go.
My main interest is economy rather than speed as I seem to do a lot of motoring and rarely leave town with less than 500 litres of diesel.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I agree but when I spoke with Scott about 18 months ago he was adamant that the 35hp was the better choice were I to replace the MD2040 in my Moody 36 and Beta suggested going with his advice given the number of installs they do. I suspect either would be absolutely fine.

That sort of conversation always makes me suspicious that they happen to have a 35hp they need to shift.

When we ordered our Beta 38 at the 2021 Southampton Boat show we ended up paying up front for the last Beta 38 they had in stock as they were in short supply and we wouldn’t have got one in time for me to fit it in summer 2022. In the end we paid for it and it sat in their warehouse until I was ready to take delivery.

 

[Tranona]

I have a Sealord.
Beta sent me info from TS marine suggesting the 35 was the way to go.
My main interest is economy rather than speed as I seem to do a lot of motoring and rarely leave town with less than 500 litres of diesel.

You consume the same amount of fuel for a given cruising speed irrespective of the engine as it is a direct function of the power you draw from the engine. There will be no saving in having a 35 instead of a 38 (or indeed a 43!). You need around 20hp for 6 knots and this comes at about 2100 rpm on both the 35 and 38 and fuel burn of 2l an hour. you can check this out on the power curves in the catalogue.

To my mind it is false economy to underpower a bit (and also unwise to dramatically overpower), There is no penalty apart from a small initial cost difference and significant gain in having the extra power available for use in adverse conditions. Just make sure you get the propeller size right as it is the propeller that drives the boat.

 

[Frank Holden]

Next question.
Modify engine beds or pay for 'bespoke' mounts from Beta?
My man in Montt suggests beds will need modifying anyway.
So I think I know the answer.

 

[penfold]

Accepting all the discussion about engine power, revs and hull speed, I would look carefully at space for the larger block and gearbox and access. I think the 43/50/60 series are a physically larger (and heavier) engine than the 35/38 The fuel filter is on the LHS looking aft - a sod to get at without side access. Beta should know the relative merits and must have done several Sealord/Oceanlord.

Moving the fuel filter if it's inaccessible is easy enough prior to installation; they are on flexible hoses and just bolt on to a bracket.

 

[Ammonite]

That sort of conversation always makes me suspicious that they happen to have a 35hp they need to shift.

When we ordered our Beta 38 at the 2021 Southampton Boat show we ended up paying up front for the last Beta 38 they had in stock as they were in short supply and we wouldn’t have got one in time for me to fit it in summer 2022. In the end we paid for it and it sat in their warehouse until I was ready to take delivery.

Perhaps but they must be very short of 38's if the CEO if Beta is saying the same thing 18 months later

I suspect the difference is marginal at best and if the 38 works for you that's great

 

[Tranona]

The 35 is more suitable for commercial workboat of fishing boat applications on smaller heavier boats that don't have the waterline length to get into the mid 7 knots as 36-40' sailboats do. I am not sure why Beta suggest that engine for the sort off boats we are talking about here - does not make sense to me. such governed down engines are common for commercial use. My project boat came with one - a Perkins/Volvo 40hp governed down to 2800 instead of 3600 and 35hp. Unnecessary in the boat which only needed 27hp for hull speed so I replaced it with a Beta 30. Sold it to fit in a Catfisher 30 for which it was ideal. Very heavy boat with short waterline length.

Maybe I am missing something, but the difference between a 35 and a 38 in a Sealord with the right propeller is about0.5 nots in maximum speed at no extra cost and no loss in cruising speed or fuel consumption. You don't have to use the extra power but it is there.

 

[Tranona]

Next question.
Modify engine beds or pay for 'bespoke' mounts from Beta?
My man in Montt suggests beds will need modifying anyway.
So I think I know the answer.

Depends on what needs modifying. If the width and length is OK and just the height is wrong then building up with hardwood and possibly glassed over is straightforward. I assume you are sticking with the down angle gearbox as changing the angle of the beds is more challenging. I had to build both inwards and up which I did by bolting and gluing new hardwood beads to the correct height and using coach screws to attach the mounts. The previous re-engine had used steel fabrications, again to go inwards as the original engine, a Lister had a very wide base.

The method I used suited me as I had the wood already and had used the same method on 2 previous re engine jobs. However you may find having Beta make the brackets less hassle.

 

[Frank Holden]

View attachment 155830

Our old engine beds as had been previously modified from the original to fit a Volvo 2040B. (First engine fitted at build was a Volvo 2000 series.)

View attachment 155831

Previous modifications removed. Scrubbing out the bilges. The foam in the left in the photo (starboard side) had to be complete dug out as it proved to be entirely sodden with oil and bilge water. Foam was replaced.

View attachment 155832

New Iroko bearers being test fitted. Note the grp dust EVERYWHERE from grinding back the GRP.

View attachment 155833

New iroko bearers glassed in with epoxy and glass matting.

View attachment 155834

Bearers all painted up. Note the heads of the coach bolts I added as belt and braces to ensure the new engine didn’t ever rip the iroko bearers out of the boat. The bolts go through the iroko into the thick grp walls that remained of the original build.

Note also the new stainless fuel tank…

John, are you still going to be in Martinique next week.? Mate of mine, an expat from Pto Montt is arriving there next Saturday to join a french boat -Glenn IV - for a delivery back to the med. He is the person who will be installing my new Beta. I think Glenn IV is in the same marina as you. I've told him to catch up if you are still around.

 

[Frank Holden]

Boring update.
On the cusp of ordering a 35.
2 year old motor boat across from us in the marina here at Algarrabo... only discovered today ... two Beta 60s.
Owners have a small shipyard in Valdivia where they built the boat to 'own account'.
Things are looking up.

 

[john_morris_uk]

John, are you still going to be in Martinique next week.? Mate of mine, an expat from Pto Montt is arriving there next Saturday to join a french boat -Glenn IV - for a delivery back to the med. He is the person who will be installing my new Beta. I think Glenn IV is in the same marina as you. I've told him to catch up if you are still around.

Sorry. We’re now in St Lucia.

We’ve been very happy with the Beta 38.

 

[Frank Holden]

Finally and at last.
Ordered my Beta in Mid May. Shipped at end of August, arrived San Antonio early December.
Plan had been to sail from Algarobbo to Pto Montt in October and install it there but the poor old Volvo had other plans - coolant in oil and injector pump failure.
So if the mountain won't come to Mohammed.... my chosen engineer came up from Montt to Algo a while back and prepped the job, came back the other day when engine was delivered - having to fit all this in between other work - and engine is now in the boat.
Coming back up again in Feb just before I fly back to Chile for completion of work.
The joys of the cruising lifestyle.
I'm glad I'm not in a hurry.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Finally and at last.
Ordered my Beta in Mid May. Shipped at end of August, arrived San Antonio early December.
Plan had been to sail from Algarobbo to Pto Montt in October and install it there but the poor old Volvo had other plans - coolant in oil and injector pump failure.
So if the mountain won't come to Mohammed.... my chosen engineer came up from Montt to Algo a while back and prepped the job, came back the other day when engine was delivered - having to fit all this in between other work - and engine is now in the boat.
Coming back up again in Feb just before I fly back to Chile for completion of work.
The joys of the cruising lifestyle.
I'm glad I'm not in a hurry.View attachment 169480

That takes me back.

I notice that it’s a very different high rise exhaust to the one on our Beta.

 

[Frank Holden]

And they are putting it in back to front!
The saga never ends.. Dave - the engineer- was driving back from Algo to Montt yesterday - abeam of Orsorno late afternoon timing belt broke.
Meanwhile I am in recovery mode here in Australia after a run in with a cow and her calf two weeks ago - only hurts when I laugh - they say I can drive again mid January - maybe.

 

[john_morris_uk]

And they are putting it in back to front!
The saga never ends.. Dave - the engineer- was driving back from Algo to Montt yesterday - abeam of Orsorno late afternoon timing belt broke.
Meanwhile I am in recovery mode here in Australia after a run in with a cow and her calf two weeks ago - only hurts when I laugh - they say I can drive again mid January - maybe.

Sorry to hear of your woes. I’m guessing you’ve cracked some ribs? No treatment except time.

 

[Frank Holden]

Cracked ribs stbd side, couple of broken bones left wrist.

Which way are you heading after Panama or are you staying in the Caribbean?

 

[john_morris_uk]

Cracked ribs stbd side, couple of broken bones left wrist.

Which way are you heading after Panama or are you staying in the Caribbean?

We’re staying in the Caribbean, another season or two and then heading up the US East Coast and we’ll see how we get on.