Anyone familiar with Johnson 4HP O/B?

[ReggieK]

When you drop the outboard into the driving position there is a clip to stop it riding up when in reverse. On the Johnson there is a spring loaded pin that pushes this clip up if you are motoring in shallows.
On mine this pin is constantly up and I cannot figure out what operates it. With a lot of pressure I can push it down but find that it comes up again. This means that I cannot motor in reverse except very slowly.
Is anyone familiar with this arrangement and can cast some light on what makes this pin move up?

 

[VicS]

You don't say precisely what model it is , what year it is or what model number it is. But my '84 6hp Evinrude has a knob, arrowed, which locks the tilt mechanism in one position (as shown ) and releases it when turned through 180 degrees.

Do you have anything similar?

It you get no help here try the Johnson Evinrude forum at iBoats http://forums.iboats.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24 but be sure to quote the full model details if you go there.

 

[mainmarine]

I have a handbook for the Evinrude 4 which is the same model. it is in German, Dutch, Italian,Danish, Swedish and Finnish. I can send you one of the these, it has pictures which may help, please let me know which language you would like, the others are available to anyone else. I am keeping the English version for my self. The lever just clicks down and locks when you hold it up out of the indents, as you lower the leg to the bottom position.

 

[pvb]

Could be that a spring has broken. There's a parts diagram online which you can access through this page and which might help in identifying the bits involved.

 

[ReggieK]

Many thanks for replies.
My OB is only 1 year old, there does not appear to be any release mechanism at all.
In the handbook it mentions this arrangement but nowhere does it say how it operates. It appears to be automatic
(except in my case not so automatic as it doesn't work)
I just thought that maybe someone out there with a similar unit may have come across this problem

 

[ReggieK]

That's a great site, thanks for that.
Exploded view shows everything except the bl**dy part I want.
Still a useful site though.

 

[VicS]

Looking at the BRP parts diagrams for 2006 I can see a part called "Arm, reverse lock" #11 on the "swivel bracket" diagram. I would have though this locked on to the "Pin, tilt lock" # 19 on the "Stern Bracket" diagram. I note it has a couple of springs associated with it. Are they Ok and does that assembly function properly.

Is something, part of the shallow water drive assembly #15,16 17 on the swivel bracket diagram, preventing the lock engaging. Will it work if you move the tilt lock pin to one of its alternative positions.

Difficult to tell really just looking at the parts diagrams.

Try iBoats Those forums are very good for outboards, especially the Johnson/Evinrude one.

 

[ReggieK]

Hi VicS
Part 11 is the part that the pin pushes up to unlock it. At the base of part no. 11 there is a half moon flat plate which is pushed up by this spring loaded pin. However, nowhere in any of the exloded views can I see this pin mechanism

 

[VicS]

Sorry then i cannot make any more suggestions. I looked back at older models but they all look the same and no sign of this spring loaded pin. I wondered if it is something that is operated via the gear selector but I cannot see anything there either. It seemed unlikely anyway.

Cant post a photo or two I suppose?

i Boats I reckon.

 

[Allan]

I have a Johnson 4hp which has no reverse. Is that the same as yours? The lock on mine only engages when the motor is turned around to give reverse thrust. As the clip is spring loaded you have to ensure it is lubricated or it will not sit in the correct position.
Allan

 

[ReggieK]

You may have a point about the gear selector, Ill examine that next time I'm down. Hoped to get a sail Saturday but forecast not good - again
Again thanks for the help

 

[pvb]

This could be the answer...

OK, let's start with the assumption that the Johnson drawings must show all the parts, therefore the "pin" you're referring to must be there somewhere. Go back to the parts diagrams (you may find that the helpful BRP site has terminated your session, in which case use this link instead).

Look at the "Driveshaft Housing" diagram. See part 12, it's described as a bushing, so it's fair to assume something goes through it, and it's in the right sort of place to be the "pin" you're looking for.

Next, look at the "Shift Linkage" diagram. You'll see that moving the gear selector to Reverse will push down the clutch rod (part 4). At the bottom of the clutch rod, there's a "clutch rod connector" (parts 8 & 9 - helps to zoom in on them). You'll see that the connector has space for 2 rods, so there's another rod which fits in it.

Now look at the "Shift Rod" diagram. My guess is that this rod (part 1) is the other rod in the connector, that the connector fits somewhere midway along the rod, and that the top end of the rod is the "pin" that you're looking for. Selecting reverse will push the clutch rod down, which will push the shift rod down, thus lowering the top end of it and allowing the reverse lock arm to drop, thus locking the leg to the transom bracket. Selecting forward will lift the rod, thus unlatching the reverse lock arm.

If you go back to the "Driveshaft Housing" diagram, you'll see that part 3 is a "clutch adjust hole cover" - and I bet the clutch rod connector is accessible through that.

Whilst this may help you make sense of the bits involved, it doesn't entirely solve the problem as, unless the rod is broken, it should go up and down as you change in and out of reverse (otherwise reverse gear wouldn't work). Hope this helps a little.

 

[ReggieK]

Re: This could be the answer...

Top class PVB. Looking at the shift rod it certainly looks like the offending part at the top.
Now to figure out why it's not moving! reverse gear works o.k.
looks quite technical, the lump hammer will have to come into use.

 

[VicS]

Re: This could be the answer...

[ QUOTE ]
OK, let's start with the assumption that the Johnson drawings must show all the parts, therefore the "pin" you're referring to must be there somewhere.

[/ QUOTE ] You could be right. I'd looked at all the diagrams and bits you mention and had come to the conclusion that the part they call the "clutch rod" was external to the drive shaft housing, entering the lower part via that bush with the connector inside that lower part making an adjustable connection onto the top of the "shift rod" (hence the cover to provide access to the connector).

However if the clutch rod is in fact inside the drive shaft housing the top of the shift rod could as you say be the mysterious "pin" emerging from the housing via that bush to lift the "reverse lock" when forward gear is engaged but allowing it to engage when reverse is selected.

Have I got that right?

As you point out though the puzzle is why is it not working as the shift mechanism must all be operating correctly in order for reverse gear to engage.

That I think brings us back to looking at the reverse lock (part 11 on the swivel bracket diagram to determine why it is not latching onto the the "tilt lock pin" (19 on the stern bracket diagram). It is either being lifted in forward gear and not falling again in reverse or it is damaged.

I'd now do as I suggested in a previous post: [ QUOTE ]
"I note it has a couple of springs associated with it. Are they OK and does that assembly function properly",

[/ QUOTE ] and make sure that it is moving freely, that the springs are OK and that it is undamaged. It must engage with the tilt lock pin when reverse is engaged!

 

[ReggieK]

Re: This could be the answer...

Yes VICS, the pin protrudes from the drive shaft housing. It is obviously stuck in reverse for some reason. Using extreme force (not a good thing) I can force it down, but driving a short distance and it has popped up again.
This thread has been very informative and now that I know that this pin operates in conjunction with the gear lever I know it is beyond my extremely limited mechanical powers to remedy.
It looks like a lift off and professional intervention, which I was hoping to avoid. A lot of expense lately and swmbo not a happy camper!

 

[VicS]

Re: This could be the answer...

[ QUOTE ]
I know it is beyond my extremely limited mechanical powers to remedy.


[/ QUOTE ] I don't think so. All the internal bits must be working OK or you would not be able to engage reverse gear. I would not expect it to be easy to push the pin down by hand. The spring inside may be fairly strong and you'll be trying to move the gear shift lever from the wrong end so to speak. Operate the gear lever and if PVB is right you should see that pin go down when you engage reverse and come up again as you shift through neutral and into forward.

I think freeing the catch and keeping it regularly lubricated may be all that is required provided it is not damaged. Even if it is it should be simple to remove it repair it (IE unbend it if its got bent) or replace and refit it. It appears to be only held by two screws but if you do take it off note how the springs are fitted first and that they are handed and not interchangeable.

 

[ReggieK]

Re: This could be the answer...

Seeing as sailing on Saturday looks unlikely as per the forecast, I'll have a good look at it. Currently however, the pin is not moving but the gear shift engages perfectly. Having struggled for years with the gear shift on a Honda 5HP the shift on the Johnson is like a Rolls Royce and it would be very noticeable if something was jamming.