Anyone bought a new Sunseeker in the last 2 years?

I'm not aware that this bow-high attitude affects all Sunseekers. That picture shows the Manhattan 50 which (in relative terms) is a short, fat and high design. Lots of lift from that beamy hull and yes, it does have V-Drives which are not common on boats of that size.

I'm looking at one of the bigger Predator's which I don't think suffer from the same issue.
 
Yes, well, that's the first example which popped up to my mind - surely one of the best in terms of planing attitude, for a flybridge.
Nonetheless, I'd say that it's rather the SS behaviour which is amazingly bad, at least in that pic.
There are many (non-custom) flybridge around with a much better cruising attitude, more similar to the Camuffo.
 
I don't know if and how much bigger SS are also affected.
But you (correctly) asked for the builder in general, in your starting post.
I would be a bit worried about any model of a builder asking big money for a hull like that...
...though we shouldn't forget that we are just judging from a pic.
All the best for your choice anyhow, one thing you definitely won't be disappointed about is the look of your new toy.
Those guys at SS are extremely good at making pretty looking boats, even better than Riva in some cases, imho.
 
Hi Magnum
if you are looking at the 62 Predator it does ride a bit high also but is better then the 50 Manhattan
72 Predator improves also the 62
it might be interesting to know your shortlist of boats for a second opinion
if you are interested PM me or put it over here
still SS will have the best finish from the British builders with half a margin better then the Fairlines but the later usually has a more balanced ride, tough in the bad stuff they quite equall each other
with that name you should buy a timeless Magnum 60 Furio and it will be sure you will have one of the best seaboats around /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
The manhattan 50 in that pic is riding too bow-high imho but I agree with magnum that it's in part caused by the V drives so not extrapolatable to pred 62/72.

I disagree with Poweryacht about the Camuffo. It's easy to make a hull run at that angle if you have a low deadrise angle and are happy to have massive wetted area, like the C18. Far from perfect imho. Here is a much more perfect hull, same length as the C18, from Fairline (olesinski). It has much sharper deadrise than the Camuffo and I'd bet is loads better in rough seas. I took this pic from the tender - sorry not very sharp. If you look at the waterline you can see the bow rise angle is only a few degrees, yet the hull lift is loads better than the C18 and so much less wetted area.

Speed in this pic was 22kts and zero tabs

IMG_0111.sized.jpg


...edit.. and here's the deadrise on the olesinski hull:

DSCF0038.sized.jpg
 
[ QUOTE ]
The manhattan 50 in that pic is riding too bow-high imho but I agree with magnum that it's in part caused by the V drives so not extrapolatable to pred 62/72.

I disagree with Poweryacht about the Camuffo. It's easy to make a hull run at that angle if you have a low deadrise angle and are happy to have massive wetted area, like the C18. Far from perfect imho. Here is a much more perfect hull, same length as the C18, from Fairline (olesinski). It has much sharper deadrise than the Camuffo and I'd bet is loads better in rough seas. I took this pic from the tender - sorry not very sharp. If you look at the waterline you can see the bow rise angle is only a few degrees, yet the hull lift is loads better than the C18 and so much less wetted area.

Speed in this pic was 22kts and zero tabs
...edit.. and here's the deadrise on the olesinski hull:

Camuffo a bit flatter aft to Fairlines normally but usally have much deeper filled forward sections which where it matters with cruising speed under 30 knots
if I was the owner of the Camuffo I would be ready to make a bet with the C18 and even a Fairline 68 Squad with a Force 5 and I am sure who will handle the situation better
each Camuffo is a one off hull from a very experienced family building company, I trialed a Partenautica 45 I have for sale which is a Camuffo derivation hull and was stunned by its seakeeping capabilities which would make most production motor boats on the spot when the going gets tough

the V-drives do matter but not as much as you think
the Ferretti 57 has a very good angle drive call it wetted surface if you like and still has V-drives and aft position engines, infact they are under the cockpit,
the main problems in most boats are using this solution of V-drives and tunnel drives with reduced shaft angle, someting in fact which Ferretti does not use, now I am sure they have one of the best Engineering Departments around who also was winner Class 1 Offshore Powerboat World Championship in 1994 and 1997

the good seakeeping hull is always a good compromise of a correct wetted surface

still that Fairline 58 Squadron is a nice picture and well planned at about 4 or 3 degrees high bow well balanced boat, infact the engines of the 58 are very central positioned
 
[ QUOTE ]
the hull lift is loads better than the C18

[/ QUOTE ]That's quite a statement.
Which is extremely hard to evaluate (either right or wrong) from any pic.
Afaik, the 60' Camuffo is one of the most efficient and performing planing hulls in that size.
Weighing more than any comparable size grp boats, she typically outperforms all of them both in terms of fuel consumption and max speed - what else should we look at, when judging the lift capability of a planing hull?
I should browse around a bit, but I'm pretty sure that there are facts and figures supporting that.
And I always heard nothing but praises about seaworthyness, either.
Which doesn't mean Fairline hulls aren't good, anyway - it was the sunsy that we were debating.
 
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Not sure where you get that but all the M50's that i have looked at were all shafts.

They are discontinued now anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]
From Sunseeker. Look at the link I posted. The M50 has always had V-drives which is why it's so roomy down below.
 
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Not sure where you get that but all the M50's that i have looked at were all shafts.

They are discontinued now anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]
From Sunseeker. Look at the link I posted. The M50 has always had V-drives which is why it's so roomy down below.

[/ QUOTE ]

the V-drive means that the engine gearbox looks forward oppoiste to a direct shaft which looks aft
the boat will still be shaft driven and under you want notice any difference same layout P=brackets rudders etc
the difference is only in the engine room
 
Thats a misprint - also an old edition as from 2005 they had ports on both sides of the hull. I recall asking SS about this just after I saw Boat 1 at LIBS.

i do not want make an issue here but on all the M 50 viewed my me the engine had its gearbox aft with shafts out. Not V drives as I expected as this was the norm for SS then

I'm sure an owner will on by shortly and settle this .


Another issue on the ride angle is waterline length vs LOA.

On some boats I note a huge overhang at the stern which maskes the true w/l length. To combat the issue I've seen box arrangments added and all sorts of stuff underneath to get the hull flat
 
Camuffo vs. Squaddie

Considering how often we see unsupported claims posted in these forums, I didn't want to add myself to the list...
...therefore I did my homework and found some figures related to my previous post.
The results are listed below (with apologies for the o/t subject):
                 Sq58        C60
LOA (m.)    17.92       18.50
Beam (m.)    4.85        4.95
Weight (t.)     22           30
Hp (x2)         811         820
Cruise kts       24           30
Max kts          34           46 (1)
Gph (2)          42           37
Mpg (2)       0.57        0.81
Deadrise (3)    18           25

Notes:
1) this astonishing figure was reported in a sea trial made by an Italian magazine. Also for me that was hard to believe, before I had the opportunity to reach an eye-watering 41kts on the gps of a smaller C50 (the 60' hull is actually regarded as the best in their range).
2) consumption figures are both measured at cruising speed, thus comparing mpg makes more sense;
3) Camuffo declares only the deadrise at the length of gravity center, whilst the Sq58 is the more typical aft deadrise. Figures are therefore not comparable, in this case. But by heart, having seen a number of Camuffo, I'd say that their aft deadrise is also around 18° or so.

I think these numbers speak for themselves, don't they?
 
The Manhattan 50 doesn't have v drives.
I have had a sealine, a fairline and now a Manhattan 50 and the 50 has the best cruising angle. Also if you look at the tests it cruises at about 4' to 5' which is normal for this type of boat.
 
Re: Camuffo vs. Squaddie

Wow, amazing figures MapisM. A bit too amazing? I just googled and think I read the same report, here: http://www.nauticalweb.com/boatshow/camuffo/60eng.htm

It seems implausible that a 30ton 60foot boat with 25degrees deadrise will do 0.81mpg at 30kts, and 46kts top speed on twin MAN 820s. Also Camuffi's claim "Competitors world-wide, today, for a weight of 30.000 kg. use engines burning 400 to 600 litres per hour. Any boat of that size from my yard would burn 160-170 litres per hour, and this is due to the shape of the hull and the weights being positioned at the right place" seems implausible.

Need to sleep on it - not sure I can believe that one yard can make a 60foot boat 3.5x fuel efficient as everyone else in the world. I'd like to believe it though, so thanks for the info/research. I'll have to see if I can witness this first hand!
 
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The Manhattan 50 doesn't have v drives.


[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks for clearing that up. It's a shame manufacturers don't check the information on their websites more often.
 
Re: Camuffo vs. Squaddie

I agree that the figures - particularly max speed and consumption - are indeed amazing.
Mind, for the 25° deadrise, as I said, it's measured at the lenght of gravity center.
Surely the aft deadrise is much lower (it's constantly decreasing from the bow to the aft, in those hulls).
Of course I can't say that all those figures, which I just picked around the web, are 100% reliable.
Besides, 600 lph for a 30t boat seems a bit unfair vs. their competitors....
But I did try 40+kts on a 50' Camuffo, and the ride was the most impressive I ever experienced on any flybridge, even bigger ones. Also the behaviour between displacement and planing cruise is unusual: the angle remains almost constant, and the boat gives the impression of taking off above the water.
Which was the reason behind my reply to your comment on the hull lift, in the first place.

If you're interested in getting some first hand impressions, you could combine a holiday in Venice with a visit to this broker. I'm sure they'll gladly sell you a Camuffo or two!... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

PS: no connection, other than having been on the same dock with the owner for a couple of seasons.
 
The reason Sunseekers plane like that is because they are designed to have at least two bikini clad women on the bow at all times. Without them it's bound to be too high.
 
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