Any Spade anchor users? Worth the cash?

[noelex]

And after 6 years no sign of corrosion of our A80.

The corrosion seen in the aluminium Spade is dissimilar metal corrosion caused by the interaction of the aluminium and the lead ballast.

Unfortunately, this type of corrosion will occur from the inside out. Therefore there will be no external signs of corrosion until the fluke material perforates.

This may be part of the reason Spade themselves advise not to use the aluminium Spade as a primary anchor.

It is another reason to save some money and buy the steel Spade. It is an excellent anchor that does not suffer these problems.

 

[J Neeves]

I already have a steel Spade, which is why I can compare the 2. Next time you need to dinghy out an anchor - think of the alloy Spade.

If there is corrosion it would be evident at the interface of the lead in the ballast chamber and the steel (at the outer edge of the ballast chamber). Unless of course there is some mechanism that means it occurs preferentially in the toe and not where seawater and oxygen can give it a head start. I can assure you that there is no evidence at all of corrosion. Moreover I understand that Spade recognised there might be an issue and took steps some years ago to mitigate the process. I cannot comment on what they might have done but it does seem to be totally successful. I can only assume that the problems to which you refer are historic and not evident today, in the same way that Mantus shanks are now HT steel (if a bit undersized) and the Rocna issues are, again, historic.

Possibly you can confirm the steps you took to identify that the shank of you Mantus that bent was mild and not HT steel.

Furthermore you might like to consider restricting your negativity to today's models and not rake up problems that might have been restricted to one or 2 anchors in the past. But I forget - you are on a mission.

I do note that virtually every other respondent to this thread has been glowing of the Spade and quite rightly so.

Jonathan

 

[vyv_cox]

On rotation, here is a little case history of ours from this season. We anchored at Patmos in a very light SE wind, motored astern downwind to 2500 rpm for about a minute. Scope was about 4:1, seabed typical of most of the eastern Med, mostly sand with a bit of mud, occasional weed clumps easily avoided as the water is so clear. The Rocna anchor is well in but with the roll bar showing, I have never seen it with the whole roll bar buried, even after three or four days of gales. Note that the float and line are clearly visible.

Overnight the wind reversed, blowing force 5-6 from the NW, strong enough for a boat near us to drag and re-anchor. The anchor has clearly rotated but remains in the same position. Although the chain has rotated as evidenced by the marks in the sand, it appears that the boat has passed right over it, dragging the line and float down to the seabed.

I find it interesting that motoring at 2500 rpm has buried the anchor to a greater degree of penetration than a force 6 wind. We remained in this position for a couple of days with about the same amount of wind but the anchor did not bury itself any further.

I looked at the anchor of the boat that dragged after he re-anchored. He picked a poor location, rather too weedy, didn't motor the anchor in. The anchor was a Spade, scope appeared adequate, owner seemed to be an experienced liveaboard. The photo was taken at the same time as my second, above, so in the same wind.

 

[vyv_cox]

Moreover I understand that Spade recognised there might be an issue and took steps some years ago to mitigate the process. I cannot comment on what they might have done but it does seem to be totally successful. I can only assume that the problems to which you refer are historic and not evident today.......

The aluminium Spade shown on my website was one of the modified ones http://coxengineering.sharepoint.com/Pages/Corrosion.aspx. The owner originally had a 'first generation' one that suffered galvanic corrosion quite badly. It was replaced with a 'second generation' one FOC by the manufacturer but within two years it was evident that corrosion was again occurring. The flukes had ballooned out and several corrosion pits had penetrated right through the aluminium. The second aluminium anchor has been replaced by a steel one. Nothing unusual about the use of these anchors, typical liveaboard in the Aegean Sea.

The photos were taken towards the end of 2013.

 

[J Neeves]

I find it interesting that motoring at 2500 rpm has buried the anchor to a greater degree of penetration than a force 6 wind. We remained in this position for a couple of days with about the same amount of wind but the anchor did not bury itself any further.


It does not surprise me at all

This is for a bigger yacht

A 45' yacht with a 6:1 scope in 4m of water when subject to a 30 knot wind would have a rode tension (no snubber just chain) of about 350kg. A 45' yacht would have a 40/50hp engine which could produce (on 10hp for 100kg) a tension of 400/500kg at cruising revs (and as the yacht is moving there will be some kinetic energy to increase that tension). If power set the tension will be higher than the tension in 30 knots of wind and the anchor will set more deeply under engine than wind - but get upto 35 knots and the wind will start to impact.

edit From you description the Spade has not been motored in, which implies its degree of set is much less than your motored in Rocna. On the basis that the Spade is wind set and not overly large for its yacht and your Rocna is not overly small for yours - it illustrates that power setting is better than a reliance on wind of F6. close edit

Jonathan

 

[J Neeves]

Noelex,

I looked at the Spade website and cannot find any reference suggesting that the alloy anchor is not recommended as a primary anchor, but we might get a different website version in Oz and/or I'm not very observant

Can you offer me the link?

I do recall seeing a comment that if you used the alloy as a primary anchor they recommended going one size larger - but did not find that either.

Jonathan

 

[noelex]

Noelex,

I looked at the Spade website and cannot find any reference suggesting that the alloy anchor is not recommended as a primary anchor, but we might get a different website version in Oz and/or I'm not very observant

Can you offer me the link?

I do recall seeing a comment that if you used the alloy as a primary anchor they recommended going one size larger - but did not find that either.

Jonathan

Both Spade UK and Spade USA have the following comment:

"it is important to note that we only recommend the use of an aluminium anchor as a secondary anchor."

They also say:
" But, we will always suggest using the steel model as a main anchor and the aluminium one as a secondary to stern anchor."

They do qualify this slightly:
"We will suggest our aluminium model as a secondary or stern anchor; or as a main anchor if your boat is a light weight catamaran; or if you are frequently racing; or if you have a large boat and no electric windlass."


The links are here:

http://www.spade-anchor.co.uk/sd_further_info1.htm

http://www.spadeanchorusa.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=88&Itemid=226

It is also interesting to note that Spade on their website note that the aluminium version does not penetrate hard substrates as well as the steel version:

"This is true; the model in steel will dig in slightly more readily than the equivalent aluminium version."

It is surprising (and to their credit) that Spade themselves announce this difference, even in their promotional material. Jonathan, I think if you could see your aluminium and steel Spade underwater in a hard substrate you would be quickly convinced.

The steel Spade is an excellent anchor do not be put off by these comments on the alloy version. If you must go with the aluminium version you need to accept the compromises. The aluminum Spade is still a good anchor, but in the transition to the different material it has lost some of its brilliance.

 

[J Neeves]

I think in the absence of the recent qualifications your earlier comments amount to trolling, a skill you use with élan.

Maybe you can apply negativity, and unqualified criticism, to all the anchors you discuss.

Jonathan

 

[GHA]

I think in the absence of the recent qualifications your earlier comments amount to trolling, a skill you use with élan.

Maybe you can apply negativity, and unqualified criticism, to all the anchors you discuss.

Jonathan

Eh??

 

[J Neeves]

Noelex has a habit of comment negatively about virtually any anchor except one or 2 which he praises without qualification. A moderator, on another forum, said something like 'he might be a very nice guy but he has sold his soul to an anchor maker'. Knuckles were rapped and the criticism toned down, but its still there, as is the unqualified praise.

Jonathan

 

[noelex]

I normally don't comment on personal criticism. Anchors are lumps of steel (or aluminium ) that sit on sea bed. I don't understand why these discussions should degenerate into personal attacks.

For the record Mantus sent me an anchor to trial about nine months ago. As I value my independence and reputation I ended up buying this anchor. I could of course have returned it, but it has proved to be an excellent anchor and I want to keep using it as my primary anchor.

I have no affiliation with any anchor manufacturer whatsoever. For the record I currently own a Mantus, Rocna, Fortress, Guardian and CQR anchor. I get to see many other designs of anchors by snorkelling around boats in the same anchorage.

I have taken a series of underwater photographs of every anchor I have seen underwater over the last nine months so hopefully people have some objective information that can be used to judge the performance of anchors for themselves.

For some reason these images have upset some people. Perhaps because they show aspect of anchor performance that does not fit with their preconceived ideas. The photos show anchors working in the real world. I hope others find them interesting, but if not they can ignore the images. My general comments about anchor performance are based on observing anchors like this almost full time for the last seven years.

They are only my opinions. They may not always be right but they are formed without any commercial bias whatsoever.

Now can we get back to discussing anchors

 

[J Neeves]

"This is true; the model in steel will dig in slightly more readily than the equivalent aluminium version."

It is surprising (and to their credit) that Spade themselves announce this difference, even in their promotional material. Jonathan, I think if you could see your aluminium and steel Spade underwater in a hard substrate you would be quickly convinced.

Noelex,

Thank you for the links.

I have used the Steel and Alloy Spade anchors in order to evaluate performance against each other and against other anchors of a similar size/weight, such as the Mantus and Rocna travelling at far north as Southport and as far south (as you can go in Australia) as southern Tasmania. That's approximately 1,000nm from north to south, in addition to 4 circumnavigations of Tasmania (Tassie's west coast is a bit like NW Scotland). To me that's fair stretch of coastline with a decent cross section of anchorages and seabeds. Some of the anchorages are tidal rivers, others are bays open to the Tasman Sea or Southern Ocean - with everything in between.

Frankly we cannot tell the difference between the alloy Spade and the Steel Spade in their ability to set and hold. I confess we steer clear of anchorages with kelp - as we do not carry an anchor that reliably copes.

Both anchors perform impeccably, they set quickly, deeply and hold reliably. I concede there may be a slight difference in an ability of the alloy vs the steel anchor to set in some very hard sand seabeds but if 1,000nm of coastline does not throw up this difference I do have to wonder how common they are. I also have to wonder how common they are in UK waters (the home of YBW) or even Med waters (a second home of YBW). Consequently if they are not that common and the differences slight I do have to wonder why it is necessary to constantly repeat the mantra (without the qualification recently posted) - the alloy is poor in hard seabeds. This is particularly relevant when many anchors in the infamous thread are simply not power set anyway and as noted the wind will not set as well as a power set until wind speeds are over, say, 35 knots. So images of poorly set alloy anchors may be due to a hard seabed, but may equally due to poor setting practice.

To me our view of anchors underwater is 'fair' as we set them and know how we set them (as we set our anchors the same way each time). But even then comparisons can be dangerous as seabeds vary, metre by metre. Do it often enough and some of these variations reduce - even if they never disappear. To compare images of anchors set by others, even if the images are selected randomly, is dangerous as we have no idea of anchor size vs vessel size nor do we have any idea whether the anchors are power set or subject to 40 knot winds. and the anchos are certainly set a significant distance apart - or the vessels would be touching each other - so the seabeds are different.

Finally the standard set is an approx 60kg Mantus, or 55kg Rocna, either or both power set each time. These anchors are being compared with 20kg, 30kg models - somehow I do not think this has any statistical significance - though possibly its an excellent marketing tool.

The images are excellent, persuasive and the message very clear - but the conclusions can be penetrated even by an alloy Spade

Jonathan

 

[Olianta]

I have a 10 kg galvanised steel Spade anchor on my 37 footer which I use as a stern anchor stored with with 6 m of 8mm chain in my locker which I attach to my ankarolina flat line. This season I used it extensively since I usually dock bow to. Used it also in anchorages but only for short time (when overnight I use the bow anchor). My Spade sets instantly and does not drag. The only one time (out of appr. 50 times) it did not set was in dense kelp which I did not see because it was nighttime (in that same place my 15 kg Bruce main anchor did not set too, so I changed the place). There is a Turkish made similar fast setting anchor named ULTRA but they make it only stainless, it has a hollow shank and is more expensive. My sailing grounds are the Black Sea west coast and the Aegean.

 

[NormanS]

[QUOTE My general comments about anchor performance are based on observing anchors like this almost full time for the last seven years.
[/QUOTE]

Wow! What a sad life you have!