Any members here with Perkins 6.354's??

Ah good, I am happy to see that there are other Perkins 6.354 owners here...

I have some questions, and while I may not remember them all at once, I hope you won't mind my asking and hopefully you will share your knowledge with me.

The engines in my boat are vintage 1977 according to the serial numbers and they are "naturals" without turbo's.... Both engines run well, and I have had to do little other than maintenance on them... Well, that is beyond the fact that I had to replace both wet manifolds and wet elbows since none were available in North America...and purportedly they are no longer manufactured by Perkins.... I had the new ones custom made out of stainless steel....

My first question is: Do you and have you always stayed with single weight diesel grade motor oil? Do you use a particular brand over another for particular reasons?

Second: I have done some reading and it would seem that conventional wisdom indicates that it is not a wise thing to use a synthetic oil in this engines, do you agree?

Sorry it took me this long to get back.... My current position requires a lot of travel and I can't always get on line....

Thanks,

Rob
 
i use the old style minreal oil's.
i get it from a local tractor place near to were i am.
glad to here yet another vintage old perkin's engine is still going strong..
and mine are 1972...
 
Thanks for the reply! Both of my engines are doing very well....in fact (knock on wood)...we haven't had a bit of mechanical problem with either engine and both engines are well over 6000 hours... Both hour meters failed around the 6K mark...

I have the original manuals for the engines, and they recommend staying with a straight 30 weight or 40 weight diesel grade oil depending on the ambient general temperature where you are living/boating... I imagine that I will stay with the single viscosity oil.... but I have been tempted to try a multi-viscosity oil like Shell Rotella 20W-50W.....but then again I hate to fool with what works... I'm not the kind to try and reinvent the wheel....

The only thing I have really had to do to the engines was replace the wet exhaust manifolds and wet elbows....one of them clogged up completely, and so I dismantled them....and ordered replacements.... I don't know about the availability in Europe, but the wet manifolds and elbows aren't available in North America...and I was told that Perkins no longer made them....so I had to turn to "after-market"....and here is a picture of the stainless steel manifolds and elbows....which strangely enough cost me only about half as much as the cast irons would have:confused: The manifolds and elbows are made to order by Marine Exhaust Systems of Alabama, in Foley Alabama...
 
RobHom said:
Thanks for the reply! Both of my engines are doing very well....in fact (knock on wood)...we haven't had a bit of mechanical problem with either engine and both engines are well over 6000 hours... Both hour meters failed around the 6K mark...

I have the original manuals for the engines, and they recommend staying with a straight 30 weight or 40 weight diesel grade oil depending on the ambient general temperature where you are living/boating... I imagine that I will stay with the single viscosity oil.... but I have been tempted to try a multi-viscosity oil like Shell Rotella 20W-50W.....but then again I hate to fool with what works... I'm not the kind to try and reinvent the wheel....

The only thing I have really had to do to the engines was replace the wet exhaust manifolds and wet elbows....one of them clogged up completely, and so I dismantled them....and ordered replacements.... I don't know about the availability in Europe, but the wet manifolds and elbows aren't available in North America...and I was told that Perkins no longer made them....so I had to turn to "after-market"....and here is a picture of the stainless steel manifolds and elbows....which strangely enough cost me only about half as much as the cast irons would have:confused: The manifolds and elbows are made to order by Marine Exhaust Systems of Alabama, in Foley Alabama...
Click to expand...

Rob,

Mark at MESA is 100% good guy and ships to Europe.

My pals at Perkins agreed that back in the late 50's engineers at Peterborough must have been on drugs when they adopted raw water cooling for the exhaust manifold.

#1 On turbocharged versions of the engine vital heat energy was robbed from the turbo by low seawater ambients.
#2 Running seawater though hot exhaust manifold resulted in a major component with a finite life. I have original Royal Navy approval tests on file, engine passed with flying colours, but even back then the raw manifold attacted adverse comment. When the guys had a chance to give the 6.354. Dot 4 a total redesign the used a far more common sense manifold in the engine coolant curcuit, except they came up with poision pill of the Manicooler!
#3 You can re-plumb the T6.354 to a more sensible configuration by putting manifold in the coolant flow, however turbo engines tend to overheat due to lack of heat exchanger capacity. Does little to save manifold as corrosion is usually well advanced. Mark at MESA has got it taped with his fabricated stainless versions. MESA once did some custom Cummins manifolds for me which did 1,147.6 knots. Fastest marine manifolds ever!
Owner was Concorde captain who brought them back as hand luggage!

As to lubes, posters here would probably not understand U.S. obsession with single weight lubricants. You would be far better served with modern 15W40 additive pack which is far kinder to Perkins mushroom tappets. Synthetic lubes do squat all for you.
 
Last edited:
Bowman's does make a conversion kit to re-plumb the engine....but when I checked the pricing....along with the cost of installation and additional items needed....and the project completion time...it was actually a bit more economical to go with the stainless steel manifolds and elbows.....
 
Bobobolinsky said:
Thought Bowmans did a combined heat exchanger.
Agree with 15W40 and keep well of synthetics
Click to expand...

Bowman did the combined manifold/heat exchanger specifically for the Dot4 6.354 and you are quite correct still available today and backwards compatable with Dot 2 engines.

Life gets a little more complex if you have T6.354 as Bowman manifold was only designed for NA engines, Perkins used a manifold/heat exchanger/intercooler manufactured by Serck called the Manicooler. Neat arrangement however corrosion sensitive.

Trouble started when Perkins tied knot with Sabre. Sabre deemed the Serck combined unit way too expensive and dumped it. Serck was bought out by another company and in the subsequent slash and burn production of Manicooler ended.

Problem was that T654 Dot 4 sold real well in U.S, far better than Europe. Owners hit the buffers when combined heat exchanger required replacement none were available causing huge problems. Serck were persuaded to re-start production however patterns had been scrapped off so new low volume units come out at around £4,000! 6.354 developed a poor reputation in the U.S over the Manicooler issue and many motors ripped out long before their time. MESA and another company Orca started providing replacement combined manifolds for the aftermarket.

Some Perkins Range 4 200 Ti motors imported from U.S have turned up on Ebay over here. Exteranally look in brilliant condition. Best stay away a poison chalace!
 
Latestarter1 said:
#3 You can re-plumb the T6.354 to a more sensible configuration by putting manifold in the coolant flow, however turbo engines tend to overheat due to lack of heat exchanger capacity.
Click to expand...

Hi Paul

Interesting. I've been meaning to do this on Playtime for 8 years (time flies!).

I thought it was ok on the T6 to do it, I can never get mine to run hot, Bill Dunlop told me they run best at 95 degrees but I cant get mine over 80. I thought I might be better off doing the manifold cooling mod and running them hotter.

Maybe I'll just wait for a pair of 5.9B series.
 
Well, my engines date from 1969. Oil wise I have been using the lowest spec 15W40 turbo diesel oil I could get, which was CE level at the time, on the recommendation of a local tractor engineer. Apart from my infamously smokey starboard engine they have been OK. Oil pressure comes up in a few seconds at start and sits between 40 and 45 psi. The ether tube type temperatur gauges dont work most of the time but show 60-70 degrees or so at river speeds. One of these days I'll experiment with the (single pole) electric sensors I got for pennies off ebay. No idea if they expect 12 or 24V, or is that a function of the gauge and the sensor doesn't care? Don't even know (at the moment) if the main bulk of the engine is used as an earth or not!

Corrosion wise I've not had the manifolds off but have has a hose spigot come away, still held in with plumber's epoxy putty which is, touch wood, fine at lower sppeds on the river. I'm curious, how much did those stainless manifolds cost, they do look the business!

At some stage I need to change the coolant on the port engine as its pretty much spent. Anyone know where the drain plug might be? I'm sure its more sophisticated than taking the heat exchanger off the end of the engine!
 
burgundyben said:
Hi Paul

Interesting. I've been meaning to do this on Playtime for 8 years (time flies!).

I thought it was ok on the T6 to do it, I can never get mine to run hot, Bill Dunlop told me they run best at 95 degrees but I cant get mine over 80. I thought I might be better off doing the manifold cooling mod and running them hotter.

Maybe I'll just wait for a pair of 5.9B series.
Click to expand...

Ben,

6.354 obviously runs warmer with manifold in the loop.

If you want to convert;

There is a 1/2" BSP opening on the freshwater circulating pump with a plug in it. Remove this plug and ream out the hole to start a 3/4" pipe tap, using a 3/4" elbow and nipples, connect this port to the front of the exhaust manifold with 1" id hose.

On the rear of the cylinder head, there is an inspection plate held in place with 6 bolts. Remove this plate, drill it then run a 3/4" pipe tap into it. Replace plate using a new gasket. Using 3/4" elbow and nipples, connect this port to the rear of the manifold with 1" id hose.

Flush out system a couple of times with radiator flush product, then with fresh water, then filled with antifreeze again.

Your existing heat exchanger SHOULD handle the extra cooling load dependant on condition of your jabsco pump, but keep an eye on the temperature the first few times out under full load.

When i think of the hundreds of hours of cold smoke with the engine suffering below proper operating temperature, you have to wonder why Perkins didn't do it right in the first place.
 
Andrew_Fanner said:
At some stage I need to change the coolant on the port engine as its pretty much spent. Anyone know where the drain plug might be?
Click to expand...

Bottom of the block, back end, right hand side.

Latestarter1 said:
Ben,

6.354 obviously runs warmer with manifold in the loop.

If you want to convert;

There is a 1/2" BSP opening on the freshwater circulating pump with a plug in it. Remove this plug and ream out the hole to start a 3/4" pipe tap, using a 3/4" elbow and nipples, connect this port to the front of the exhaust manifold with 1" id hose.

On the rear of the cylinder head, there is an inspection plate held in place with 6 bolts. Remove this plate, drill it then run a 3/4" pipe tap into it. Replace plate using a new gasket. Using 3/4" elbow and nipples, connect this port to the rear of the manifold with 1" id hose.

Flush out system a couple of times with radiator flush product, then with fresh water, then filled with antifreeze again.

Your existing heat exchanger SHOULD handle the extra cooling load dependant on condition of your jabsco pump, but keep an eye on the temperature the first few times out under full load.

When i think of the hundreds of hours of cold smoke with the engine suffering below proper operating temperature, you have to wonder why Perkins didn't do it right in the first place.
Click to expand...

I really should make an effort with this.

Mine are 1967, do I win a prize?
 
Andrew_Fanner said:
Oh Cock (as James May would put it) guess which side my horizontals have underneath, assuming the water pump end is the front:-)
Click to expand...

James May is the only one of that lot that is worth having on TV.

I forgot you had HT's, not sure where your drain will be. IIRC its a tapered BSP type thread, most likely well siezed into the block.

Latestarter1 will know.
 
burgundyben said:
James May is the only one of that lot that is worth having on TV.

I forgot you had HT's, not sure where your drain will be. IIRC its a tapered BSP type thread, most likely well siezed into the block.

Latestarter1 will know.
Click to expand...

I'll be getting my hands dirty then! High time the systems were flushed out and the heat exchanger and intercooler cleaned anyway.

I remain cynically amused by the way that my official Perkins manual assumes engine on a cradle and in a well lit workshop for all servicing. Its the bit Haynes get almost right, there stuff tends to assume you have the lump in the vehicle most of the time. If I want to adjust the water pump belt idler pulley its by feel or take the heat exchanger off. Been feel so far, including removal and total rebuilds as both pulleys were seized!
 
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