any help major damage to engine on just purchased boat
- Thread starter Anthonyrmay
- Start date
chinita
Well-Known Member
A couple of things don't quite stack up here.
Presumably the boat was surveyed out of the water. Was the surveyor requested to run the engine? If so, how was the engine run (yes, I know how to do it but did the surveyor really go to all that faff?).
Ok, let's assume the boat was afloat. If the engine was run and the seawater pump was defective then the surveyor would have noted lack of, or reduced, water through the wet exhaust.
If the surveyor noted 'overheating', how did he notice - particularly if the seawater pump was pumping? Did he check the inlet and outlet pipes on the heat exchanger? Did the alarm go off? Did the surveyor check other alarm functions - alternator not charging for example? If he had, he would have reported a faulty audible alarm - which could be an electrical or sender fault.
If he did all of this, he is indeed a very special surveyor, more akin to a diesel engineer.
Presumably the boat was surveyed out of the water. Was the surveyor requested to run the engine? If so, how was the engine run (yes, I know how to do it but did the surveyor really go to all that faff?).
Ok, let's assume the boat was afloat. If the engine was run and the seawater pump was defective then the surveyor would have noted lack of, or reduced, water through the wet exhaust.
If the surveyor noted 'overheating', how did he notice - particularly if the seawater pump was pumping? Did he check the inlet and outlet pipes on the heat exchanger? Did the alarm go off? Did the surveyor check other alarm functions - alternator not charging for example? If he had, he would have reported a faulty audible alarm - which could be an electrical or sender fault.
If he did all of this, he is indeed a very special surveyor, more akin to a diesel engineer.
Georgio
Well-Known Member
From what I understand from speaking with the OP the engine was run for some time under load, the surveyor and the ex-owner motored the boat to the slip where it was being lifted for survey, this was some distance. The overheat alarm went off and and the owners explanation of a fouled strainer did not ring true, engineer inspected engine found that waterpump was leaking/poor condition and was replaced. Engine then run by engineer after waterpump replacement (no idea for how long or if under load) and all seemed fine.
I suspect the overheating issue has been going on for some time and the engine as suffered internal damage as a result of this not being fixed correctly some time ago.
For info, replacement new engine is now fitted so at least the OP can go sailing and have confidence in the motor.
OP now looking to sell the old engine to claw back some of the costs so if anyone wants a project ......
davidej
Well-Known Member
Nice for all us peeps who have been following a saga to learn the outcome.
Pity the OP couldn't be bothered.
Pity the OP couldn't be bothered.
chinita
Well-Known Member
davidej
Well-Known Member
But please...................
let us know who paid for it.
How was the dispute between buyer/vendor/broker/engineer resolved?
I think that if you post asking for help, you owe all those who responded a duty to let them know the outcome
let us know who paid for it.
How was the dispute between buyer/vendor/broker/engineer resolved?
I think that if you post asking for help, you owe all those who responded a duty to let them know the outcome
Georgio
Well-Known Member
The dispute is not resolved but the boat is usable now. I suspect that is why there has been no further comment from the OP (remembering that this is an open forum), please don't take it as rudeness on his part he is very grateful for all the ideas, support and info from the forum.
I'm sure he will respond in due course with the result.
davidej
Well-Known Member
Thanks for keeping us informed.
sarabande
Well-Known Member
perhaps if there has been an "accommodation" reached with the vendor/engineer/broker then part of that agreement might be not letting on who paid what ?
That way no reputations are besmirched
That way no reputations are besmirched
dilly
Well-Known Member
your rights are the same as buying any thing and fit for purpose and fair wear and tare your first port of call will be the broker telling him you want your money back
dilly
Well-Known Member
your rights are the same as if you where buying a car from a dealer same thing tell him you want your money back plus cost
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Suggest you read the whole thread. Your rights are NOT the same as buying from a dealer when you buy from a private individual. If what you are claiming is correct this thread would not have gone on for 70 posts. If he had bought from a dealer then the situation would indeed have been more clear cut.
The OP might have a claim on the vendor but there are not enough facts to determine whether he has a basis for a successful claim. That is why he has been recommended to seek legal advice.
dilly
Well-Known Member
if the dealer has been payed ie commission and done through his business then he is part of it
Tranona
Well-Known Member
Once again wrong. There is no "dealer" involved, but a broker. That is a different legal status from a dealer. A broker is an agent for the owner. The transaction and contract is direct between the private owner and private buyer. He (the broker) does have legal obligations to both parties but not under the Sale of Goods Act.
Suggest you read the notice on the bottom of every brokers' listing which clearly states what his obligations are.
Just to reinforce the point - if the boat had indeed been bought from a dealer, that is a trader who owned the boat and was selling it by way of trade the issue would be much more clear cut. But it wasn't, it was bought from a private person.
Rigger Mortice
N/A
If a broker and private individual really did have the duties that some are making out they do, then there would be little point in getting a survey done. If anything was found to be at fault, a buyer would simply be able to say "you owe me £x's".
jonic
Well-Known Member
Tranona and Rigger are right.
Its all here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54
Section 14 implied terms about quality and fitness
(Note in that section)
(5)The preceding provisions of this section apply to a sale by a person who in the course of a business is acting as agent for another as they apply to a sale by a principal in the course of a business, except where that other is not selling in the course of a business and either the buyer knows that fact or reasonable steps are taken to bring it to the notice of the buyer before the contract is made.
Most sale and purchase contracts through a professional broker will have the following:
3 WARRANTIES
(a) The Vendor warrants to the Purchaser that he is the sole legal and beneficial owner of the Vessel and absolutely entitled to transfer his interest in the Vessel.
(b) * The Vendor is not selling in the course of a business and the Purchaser is at liberty to inspect the vessel and satisfy himself as to its condition and specification. Any expenses in this connection shall be borne by the Purchaser. All express or implied warranties or conditions statutory or otherwise are hereby excluded and the vessel, its outfit, gear and equipment shall be taken with all defects and faults of description without any allowance or abatement whatsoever
OR
(c) * The Vendor is selling in the course of a business, and statutory warranties therefore apply. The Purchaser is at liberty to inspect the vessel and satisfy himself as to its condition and specification - any expenses in this connection shall be borne by the Purchaser.
If (b) is the case then it all falls to the survey.
However the sale of goods act terms with regard to title and description still apply in all cases.
If the broker/or his business do not own the vessel, and the owner is a private individual and not a business or selling in the course of business then it is a private sale.
It is not treated in the same way as buying a secondhand car from a dealer who has bought the car to sell on. i.e. in the course of business. (Also known as trading on his own account)
The Ops recourse will lie either with any misdescription, failure of survey or possibly a contractual issue with the vendor where the fault was not rectified as agreed.
Its all here http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1979/54
Section 14 implied terms about quality and fitness
(Note in that section)
(5)The preceding provisions of this section apply to a sale by a person who in the course of a business is acting as agent for another as they apply to a sale by a principal in the course of a business, except where that other is not selling in the course of a business and either the buyer knows that fact or reasonable steps are taken to bring it to the notice of the buyer before the contract is made.
Most sale and purchase contracts through a professional broker will have the following:
3 WARRANTIES
(a) The Vendor warrants to the Purchaser that he is the sole legal and beneficial owner of the Vessel and absolutely entitled to transfer his interest in the Vessel.
(b) * The Vendor is not selling in the course of a business and the Purchaser is at liberty to inspect the vessel and satisfy himself as to its condition and specification. Any expenses in this connection shall be borne by the Purchaser. All express or implied warranties or conditions statutory or otherwise are hereby excluded and the vessel, its outfit, gear and equipment shall be taken with all defects and faults of description without any allowance or abatement whatsoever
OR
(c) * The Vendor is selling in the course of a business, and statutory warranties therefore apply. The Purchaser is at liberty to inspect the vessel and satisfy himself as to its condition and specification - any expenses in this connection shall be borne by the Purchaser.
If (b) is the case then it all falls to the survey.
However the sale of goods act terms with regard to title and description still apply in all cases.
If the broker/or his business do not own the vessel, and the owner is a private individual and not a business or selling in the course of business then it is a private sale.
It is not treated in the same way as buying a secondhand car from a dealer who has bought the car to sell on. i.e. in the course of business. (Also known as trading on his own account)
The Ops recourse will lie either with any misdescription, failure of survey or possibly a contractual issue with the vendor where the fault was not rectified as agreed.
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clyst
Well-Known Member
This seems to be the most sensible post on this thread . As I have said before ......Too many barrack room lawyers who think they know the law but apparently don't .
Jim@sea
Well-Known Member
You have a case to persue. Only because a fault was found and they did not fix it. you knew about the overheating and the owner was instructed to have it fixed. But he did not have it fixed. Unfortunatly when the Volvo dealer found the water pump was faulty THEY STOPPED LOOKING. for any other problems. Certainly they did not check to see if there were any other issues which was causing the engine to overheat or any consequential problems with the engine being overheated.
There is the expression "Time has begun to run" and in your case the engine was run for 35-40 minutes when it stopped.
I would in your position get your solicitor to write and put the broker on notice that you want the deal reversing, send a copy to the original owner and get an "Independent Engineer " to do a report, then get a "Barristers Opinion" and take it from there.
There is the expression "Time has begun to run" and in your case the engine was run for 35-40 minutes when it stopped.
I would in your position get your solicitor to write and put the broker on notice that you want the deal reversing, send a copy to the original owner and get an "Independent Engineer " to do a report, then get a "Barristers Opinion" and take it from there.
PhillM
Well-Known Member
Problem is that by the time you have instructed a solicitor, paid them to give advice, then for writing one or more letters, plus a Barister at £1200 + you are a long way in to the cost of repair. Don't get me wrong I aprove of the intention but from what I know about legal proceedings you are into at least £10K before you get to court and several times that if it does. At this level you might as well take the hit and get it repaired. If you are lucky and it comes in under the small claims limit then you might have a cheaper way forward.
Last point, all this worry and stress is not going to get you out on the water. Much better to put it behind you and get out and enjoy the boat - after all that why you borght her.
Uricanejack
Well-Known Member
If the thermostathad been removed. i think you have acase for the boats condition having been deliberatly missrepresented by the vendor. at the very least he is a Lying S,O,B. he then had a waterpump replaced and pssed this off as a repair of the overheating. I would suspect there was some missrepresntation to the engine repiar shop. if asked to investigate a over heating problem a mechaninc would check more than just the pump. he would check the operation of the thermostat before replacing the pump.
From my limited knowladge of contract law. Your contract is with the sellar not the mechanic. however if the mechanics neglect led to your failure you may still have a claim against the repair shop. (Mrs whats her name and the snail in the pop bottle case)depending upon what they were asked by the vendor to do. Investigate or to replace.
Failing this do you know any big menacing looking chaps who could ask nicely on your behalf.
