Any advice for a trot mooring virgin

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stranded

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We have just been offered a double trot mooring on the Dart at Kingswear. Very excited about moving to the Dart, but trepidatious about setting up and using a trot for the first time. I’ve looked at the guidance sent by the harbour authority, and trawled through old posts here, so have a rough idea what is needed, but a few detailed questions if anyone has a moment:

1. Dart Harbour (DH) require a line linking the two buoys to stop them drifting apart when unoccupied. Can/should this be a pick up line joining the ends of the mooring strops, or is there a practical reason why it should be an additional line?

2. DH strongly recommend oxoing strops on boat rather than fixed loops for adjustability/ease of getting on/off cleats in strong conditions. But loops sound easier to me?

3. DH say don’t use stainless steel in any part of the set-up - but can I use Monel to mouse the shackles as I see that too can do some nasty galvanic stuff?

4. We will try whenever possible to moor pointing upriver as advised, but when returning on a big flood that may be very difficult. Is it ok on a double trot to face the opposite way to one‘s neighbour, or is that an absolute no no?

5. We are required to appoint a local agent in the event something needs doing with the boat immediately and we are not available - DA have provided a list of possibles but it would be good if anyone has any recommendations?

6. What are the questions I should have asked!?

Cheers, M.
 
I'm not on the Dart but have been on a double trot at Christchurch for some years so the following is just my opinion/experience.

1. I use the link line to join the buoys and have a separate pick up buoy for the strops. As the trots are fairly close, I clip the pickup buoy to the link line to stop them drifting and interfering with my neighbours.
I did try to do as you suggest and joined the strops to the link line this season, but found this a bit awkward as there was more slack in the lines and I sometimes need to haul on the link line to come to a dead stop in the current.

2. I've alway oxoed my lines - it's certainly more adjustable. Several of my neighbours have loops. I think it's down to personal preference.

3. I use SS eyes on my mooring strops, but currently only have galvanised shackles. I always attach to the riser chain (separate links just in case), not the buoy itself. Not sure why DH suggest no SS - would be interested in what others have to say.

4. Can't really comment on this one as all the boats at Christchurch moor bow upstream as we're on the river.

The only thing I'd add is that I've now lost two rod buoys to corrosion. One was the split pin at the base which rotted away and I did spot it - I got left with just the bottom loop. The second was the rod itself which rotted at the base. I'd recommend keeping a close eye as they are a bot pricy to replace.

Bets of luck on the Dart - a lovely place and I look forward to hopefully going back there next season.

Cheers, Rob
 
stranded said:
We have just been offered a double trot mooring on the Dart at Kingswear. Very excited about moving to the Dart, but trepidatious about setting up and using a trot for the first time. I’ve looked at the guidance sent by the harbour authority, and trawled through old posts here, so have a rough idea what is needed, but a few detailed questions if anyone has a moment:

1. Dart Harbour (DH) require a line linking the two buoys to stop them drifting apart when unoccupied. Can/should this be a pick up line joining the ends of the mooring strops, or is there a practical reason why it should be an additional line?

2. DH strongly recommend oxoing strops on boat rather than fixed loops for adjustability/ease of getting on/off cleats in strong conditions. But loops sound easier to me?

3. DH say don’t use stainless steel in any part of the set-up - but can I use Monel to mouse the shackles as I see that too can do some nasty galvanic stuff?

4. We will try whenever possible to moor pointing upriver as advised, but when returning on a big flood that may be very difficult. Is it ok on a double trot to face the opposite way to one‘s neighbour, or is that an absolute no no?

5. We are required to appoint a local agent in the event something needs doing with the boat immediately and we are not available - DA have provided a list of possibles but it would be good if anyone has any recommendations?

6. What are the questions I should have asked!?

Cheers, M.
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We had a trot mooring on the Dart until last year - now moved to a a swinging mooring further upstream. I'll try to answer your questions in order.

1. I think this is personal choice. Some people like to use a line joining the strops but we found it easier to have a separate line buoyed centrally. this could be used to get a mid ships line on quickly and easily.

2. We went for the oxo method as this made it easier to attach the mooring strops to the line joining the buoys and thus easier to pick up.

3. I've also heard rumours about monel. We used cable ties.

4. Don't think it really matters - there are times when it is advantageous to be facing the chop kicked up by the prevailing winds.

5. Can't really answer this. We used Guy Savage from Mill Creek but I'm not sure that he still does this.

6. Worth thinking about whether to use a separate tender to and from the mooring. The water taxi is not always available. We found a Dory and then a RIB most useful. Have you thought about car parking?

Cheers,
Colin
 
Thanks guys, this is very helpful indeed.

Actually getting to the boat - car parking and tender/taxi - is the one thing that caused us even a second’s pause before accepting the mooring. Our opening plan is to use public transport to get to Kingswear/Dartmouth - we can get a train direct from Lympstone to Paignton then bus or, a bit quicker and cheaper but with a change, train to Totnes then bus again. We’d then hope to squeeze into the Darthaven car park out of season for transporting bigger stuff, or get our daughter to drive us down if that proves impossible/in high season. But I’ve no experience of the parking situation in Dartmouth except to have heard that it’s dire. We’d then cross fingers when it comes to the water taxi and if it’s a major problem think about a tender, or maybe hump a stand up paddle board, or get swmbo to flash a leg to blag a lift to fetch our tender off the boat. Whether this plan survives first contact with the enemy remains to be seen!
 
Other than at regatta Darthaven is usually able to take you. Not cheap though! Maybe consider a season ticket? Counterintuitively , it's sometimes mor difficult out of season as they close the main (largest) car park for boat standing.
 
pessimist said:
Other than at regatta Darthaven is usually able to take you. Not cheap though! Maybe consider a season ticket? Counterintuitively , it's sometimes mor difficult out of season as they close the main (largest) car park for boat standing.
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That’s encouraging, thanks - it will only be occasionally - we prefer train - and the saving over our current marina contract will pay for quite a bit of car parking!
 
I've been in a river trot for 20 years now, there are a lot of advantages and a few disadvantages.

1. Dart Harbour (DH) require a line linking the two buoys to stop them drifting apart when unoccupied.
- Definitely, it should have little to no slack and float / buoyed (fishing net floats are good). I also Cow Hitch on 3 shortish loops of rope spaced to line up with my spring and center cleats, which hold the line out of the water and keeps the water gunge level down.

1a Can/should this be a pick up line joining the ends of the mooring strops, or is there a practical reason why it should be an additional line?
- It can be but best to have a separate (slack) pickup. I have splices eyes at the ends of my mooring lines and snap shackles splice on the ends of the pickup line. When leaving I pass the shackle through the eye at the end of my mooring line and snap it back onto the pickup line. I remove the pickup line on return.

2. DH strongly recommend oxoing strops on boat rather than fixed loops for adjustability/ease of getting on/off cleats in strong conditions. But loops sound easier to me?
- Yes, having a meter or two of line free makes life easy to deal with the mooring line (strop) and undoing an oxo is easier than trying to take a loop off when it is under tension. My mooring lines are long enough so that I can drop the eye splice on the bitter end over a spring cleat (just for peace of mind).

3. DH say don’t use stainless steel in any part of the set-up - but can I use Monel to mouse the shackles as I see that too can do some nasty galvanic stuff?
- I don't use shackles anywhere on the mooring lines. Spliced loops on both ends, the loop to the mooring buoy end is Cow hitched to the ring / eye on the buoy.

4. We will try whenever possible to moor pointing upriver as advised, but when returning on a big flood that may be very difficult. Is it ok on a double trot to face the opposite way to one‘s neighbour, or is that an absolute no no?
- The Environment Agency who control my mooring also stipulate this, the only thing that I can think of is that the river current is stronger than the flood back current from the sea. Sometimes when returning with the flood and a following wind it's too difficult to moor the way they want, so I don't!

5. We are required to appoint a local agent in the event something needs doing with the boat immediately and we are not available - DA have provided a list of possibles but it would be good if anyone has any recommendations?
- Maybe find out who your mooring partner uses and do a deal ?

6. What are the questions I should have asked!?
- Who maintains the trot and buoys?
- What are the arrangements when the trot is under maintenance?
- Assuming DA do maintenance, Are you left to fend for yourself or are temporary moorings available?
- Is the mooring occupation allowed for the full year?

Hope this helps.
 
Thanks Monty - great stuff there including the other questions I need to ask - I know at least that all year round mooring is fine, though those on double trots will be separated, with an alternating one moved to an alternative single mooring over winter. We have to have 1 1/2 - 2m of 10mm chain shackled to the buoy, then the rope attached to a shackle on the other end of the chain - x4 so a fair bit of mousing! Deal with trot neighbour partner sounds a very good tip!
 
That’s encouraging, thanks - it will only be occasionally - we prefer train - and the saving over our current marina contract will pay for quite a bit of car parking!
Click to expand...

If you prefer the train, I'd highly recommend the steam train from Paignton to and from Kingswear. I usually (at least I did pre-lockdown) travel down and back that way. A year's pass is quite cheap, plus by the time I arrive at Kingswear I'm totally chilled.

Darthaven car park used to have a pay-on exit system which was fine, but they changed it to pay-up-front with no text reminders and fine you for any overstay above 10 mins (ask me how I know...). As Pessimist said above they do a 6 month deal, also for picking up & dropping off you get a free hour.
 
Bertie1972 said:
If you prefer the train, I'd highly recommend the steam train from Paignton to and from Kingswear. I usually (at least I did pre-lockdown) travel down and back that way. A year's pass is quite cheap, plus by the time I arrive at Kingswear I'm totally chilled.

Darthaven car park used to have a pay-on exit system which was fine, but they changed it to pay-up-front with no text reminders and fine you for any overstay above 10 mins (ask me how I know...). As Pessimist said above they do a 6 month deal, also for picking up & dropping off you get a free hour.
Click to expand...
The steam train was the first idea but with trip by trip tickets it did seem pricey, but I’ll definitely check out the season ticket option.
 
stranded said:
We have to have 1 1/2 - 2m of 10mm chain shackled to the buoy, then the rope attached to a shackle on the other end of the chain - x4 so a fair bit of mousing!
Click to expand...
That sounds like you are introducing 8 fail points! I would get elongated rings welded into the end of the chains, loop the chain through the buoy and back through the welded ring then cow hitch the mooring line to the bitter end chain ring.
 
FWIW.
I was on a trot mooring inside the Deep water pontoons fora long time, until last year when I got a swinging mooring upriver, using Dittisham as a base.
The tide on the ebb is quite something and with any South in the wind, one needs a decent dinghy and engine to survive, especially with lots of "stuff". Leave it either side.
It is also a dirty river which deposits silt and algae on the boat from the securing warps. Be prepared to clean off each time you arrive back. DHNA staff are most helpful with design and practical use of your ropes.
Parking a car, and in particular, leaving it for any length of time is almost impossible on Dartmouth side. even during winter.
The Car park at Darthaven is possible but not under their control and very expensive if you forget to pay in advance. Maybe more helpful up at Noss.
Make a point of being helpful/friendly with the liveaboards around you. They will look out for you and help.

I am also now investigating a mooring off Exmouth. !!!:rolleyes:
 
Mudisox said:
FWIW.
I was on a trot mooring inside the Deep water pontoons fora long time, until last year when I got a swinging mooring upriver, using Dittisham as a base.
The tide on the ebb is quite something and with any South in the wind, one needs a decent dinghy and engine to survive, especially with lots of "stuff". Leave it either side.
It is also a dirty river which deposits silt and algae on the boat from the securing warps. Be prepared to clean off each time you arrive back. DHNA staff are most helpful with design and practical use of your ropes.
Parking a car, and in particular, leaving it for any length of time is almost impossible on Dartmouth side. even during winter.
The Car park at Darthaven is possible but not under their control and very expensive if you forget to pay in advance. Maybe more helpful up at Noss.
Make a point of being helpful/friendly with the liveaboards around you. They will look out for you and help.

I am also now investigating a mooring off Exmouth. !!!:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Lots of good advice from everyone so far. We had a trot mooring on the Dart for about 10, years until this year. I initially used a loop, but after one early experience where I had to cut the loop to leave the mooring I went for longer lines and the oxo method, but still had a loop just for security.
We almost always found somewhere to park at the head of waterhead creek, although the locals were not keen on anyone other than residents parking there, but it is not residents only. However for convenience a season ticket at Darthaven is good. You might even investigate the possibility of getting a berth for your tender there, not cheap but car parking will be included. Just make sure to tie the tender to your boat or mooring securely;)
We always berthed facing south as the winds are always worst from that direction.
I used a mixture of galvanised and stainless shackles, those on top of the mooring buoy don’t get submerged so galvanic corrosion shouldn’t be a problem over the course of a season.
The fouling on the Dart is pretty bad, and as already mentioned your lines will get very dirty if you’re away for a more than a week or so, annoying but nothing more.
Its a beautiful river, enjoy your time there. And the DHNA staff are excellent.
 
So, thanks to all the advice here, we think we have the new trot mooring set up OK. With the help of a very nice (ie patient) Dart Harbour young man we got safely tied up a couple of weeks ago. She was still there sitting pretty in the sunshine when I went down to check last week, and our double trot partner had moved onto her mooring too.

And that is where the next thing to worry about starts! The harbour authority sells the joys of a double trot by emphasising that you can use your neighbouring boat as effectively a pontoon for arriving and leaving. Sounded good. But our neighbour is an older boat and seems particularly ill equipped for pontoon duty (no shame in that!). She has no midships cleats, tiny (and fully loaded) inboard fore and aft cleats behind (again tiny) enclosed fairleads. Her primary witches are loaded with lines and using that as a mid ship clear for steadying while we tie up properly looks impractical, the side decks are covered by a cats cradle of springs, trot lines, fender lines and heaven knows what, so going aboard would be tricky at the best of times, downright dangerous in the dark. She is a ketch, so two lots of shrouds we might use, though they don’t look the strongest and neither would serve as a midship cleat.

It’s looking like we will be making our first attempt at remooring on her leeward side in some pretty gusty winds this weekend. I am thinking we have two options. One is to just leave our lines in the water, hoping they don’t get tangled round something on our partner while we are away, and that we can pick them up OK in the prevailing conditions - we can ask the harbour master for help if necessary. The other is to persevere with the partner boat as pontoon idea and put a loop round her stanchion bases or shrouds while we get mooring lines on. But would either of these be strong enough for the job - both boats are 44ft weighing, in our case, maybe 13 tons? The shrouds would presumably be stronger, but strong enough? I will of course discuss with our partner when I see him, but he wasn’t around last week and may not be this.

As ever, very grateful for advice.
 
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