Antifouling

[Neeves]

Cruise ships, or any large vessel, use one of 2 types of AF, silicone based and regular AF, like the AFs we use, but more powerful (and commonly not available to us). Large commercial ships make a loss when stationary and are commonly used fairly continuously. Constant movement should keep fouling at bay.

This is an interesting story - but I can find no reference to the AF used

Viking Orion: hundreds of passengers stranded on cruise ship off South Australia due to ‘marine growth’

If more information is revealed it might be interesting.

Jonathan

 

[vyv_cox]

Some time ago I looked into this topic and was told that the conventional a/f used by shipping is essentially the same as we use.

I do have some experience with the silicone based stuff. It has pretty poor adhesion to substrates and is amazingly fragile, so cannot stand lifting strops or any mechanical damage.

 

[[70521]]

Clearly somebody does not want any 'invasive species'.

 

[Neeves]

Some time ago I looked into this topic and was told that the conventional a/f used by shipping is essentially the same as we use.

I do have some experience with the silicone based stuff. It has pretty poor adhesion to substrates and is amazingly fragile, so cannot stand lifting strops or any mechanical damage.

I think this is largely true but does not quite explain why Jotan's, International's and Hempel's (to name but three) of the major anti fouling companies commercial AF's cannot be sold to the leisure market and are restricted to use by 'professionals'

Try buying Micron 99, Sea Quantum Ultra or Globic.

Jonathan

 

[Biggles Wader]

I think this is largely true but does not quite explain why Jotan's, International's and Hempel's (to name but three) of the major anti fouling companies commercial AF's cannot be sold to the leisure market and are restricted to use by 'professionals'

Try buying Micron 99, Sea Quantum Ultra or Globic.

Jonathan

The rules on sale of these "commercial" paints seems to vary. Here in UK (and I assume in Oz) you cant buy them as a private individual but you can have them applied by a business. I believe you can buy them freely in many European countries such as Netherlands. Here, there is also an unofficial black market in them where private individuals obtain a small number of 20 litre drums and sell them on. As the paints themselves are not banned I assume it is legal to sell them privately but maybe one of our legal experts could give an opinion?

 

[Neeves]

The rules on sale of these "commercial" paints seems to vary. Here in UK (and I assume in Oz) you cant buy them as a private individual but you can have them applied by a business. I believe you can buy them freely in many European countries such as Netherlands. Here, there is also an unofficial black market in them where private individuals obtain a small number of 20 litre drums and sell them on. As the paints themselves are not banned I assume it is legal to sell them privately but maybe one of our legal experts could give an opinion?

International say of Micron 99

• International's best performing antifouling suitable for the harshest fouling conditions. Note; Use on vessels that are 20m or longer due to APVMA registration and regulation

Jonathan

 

[Snowgoose-1]

Is bottom trawling still legal for the locals ?

 

[ChromeDome]

I researched this many years ago before there were a lot of restrictions.

5 decades of boating has taken me through many different AF types, from high (45%) copper content to a PTFE-based thin film (doesn't build layers)antifouling (No active ingredients emitted into the water).

When I talked to people who maintain ferries, I was told, "yes, of course, you can use the same on your yacht. If you keep it at speed 24/7!"
Since then, my belief has been that AF should be chosen according to individual needs:

Which waters?
What usage pattern?
Which vessel?
What speed range?
Preferred technology / AF api type?

The only shortcut in the selection process I've found is to talk to people in your own marina.

 

[coopec]

Here are the anti-fouling coatings sold to "the trade" in Australia.

Antifoul - Marine Trade Supplies

NOTE Although they say they supply the Tade they don't seem to be averse to delivering to a private address?

 

[ChromeDome]

Here are the anti-fouling coatings sold to "the trade" in Australia.

Antifoul - Marine Trade Supplies

Interesting. The big names, one by one.
Think they use localized formulations. I'd expect a product made down there would be better?

Ozzies commonly invent stuff for their local market that fits & works better than anything imported.

 

[Biggles Wader]

International say of Micron 99

• International's best performing antifouling suitable for the harshest fouling conditions. Note; Use on vessels that are 20m or longer due to APVMA registration and regulation

Jonathan

I dont know about International/ Micron 99 or APVMA but here in UK I was offered a 2/3rds used drum of Hempel Olympic five years ago which I bought for much less than the cost of 5 litres Cruiser Uno. It worked well for three years and just about coped in year four. It now has worn through in high friction areas like the rudder and needs doing. I call that a good result and would use it again but I think it might have been replaced by Globic.

 

[Graham376]

The rules on sale of these "commercial" paints seems to vary. Here in UK (and I assume in Oz) you cant buy them as a private individual but you can have them applied by a business. I believe you can buy them freely in many European countries such as Netherlands. Here, there is also an unofficial black market in them where private individuals obtain a small number of 20 litre drums and sell them on. As the paints themselves are not banned I assume it is legal to sell them privately but maybe one of our legal experts could give an opinion?

I have trade account with Jotun Iberia and have no problem buying any of their products, some of which are for professional use only in the UK. When I asked them about any restrictions on Seaforce , which I resell, they advised no such rules in Portugal. I sometimes wonder whether the restrictions elsewhere are more to do with selling so-called leisure products at higher profit margin.

 

[jwfrary]

We have some high speed vessels at work which we can put whatever we like on, however we have found that normal yacht type antifouls works best (Millie NCT in our case, tiger extra works well too) as these are formulated to cope with the time alongside (between projects the vessels are stationery)

The merchant antifoul solutions are based on the ship moving more therefore the formulation is different. They are also applied far thicker than your average yacht expecting a Dry Dock around the 5 year mark.

Silicone antifouls I have used are as Vic says, soft and easily damaged and don't work that well when the vessel is too stationary.

I have been shown some harder samples from the states, however that didn't perform well on a yacht in the river, but that river is particularly bad for fouling. Also the yard won't lift silicon coated vessels with strops which put the nail in the coffin of that idea!

 

[Neeves]

The restrictions have nothing to do with profits but are imposed national or internationally based on the perceived dangers to applicators and or the environment. I might have thought that the EU had standard restrictions.

There are differences in these national or international perceptions (TBT being an example) but the differences are minor and I doubt the differences, in performance, for the small formulation differences would be noticed by the owner of vessel to which different AFs are applied.

Hempel's Olympic, or which there are 2 variants here in Oz, is different to Globic, Globic is significantly better.

The reason Viking Orion is interesting (and it is not an isolated case - there have been other ships (from other cruise lines that have had similar but different issues) is simply - it might be an AF to avoid. There are plenty of others to choose from.

I tested about 13 AFs, before Micron 99 was introduced, and the most expensive AFs tended to be the best. So if you can access Micron 99, Jotun's Sea Quantum Ultra or Globic you should achieve a longer life - as long as you use your yacht. A big issue is that applicators, us or the trade, can be a bit parsimonious with our coatings - this is false economy as a specific coating thickness needs to be achieved for a reasonable life. The cost is in the labour and the paint, a thin coating means you are not getting value for money for the labour.

Jotun have 4 products in the Sea Quantum range and one of the formulations is for vessels laid up - I have wondered if it might be more suitable for leisure yachts, that sail 'slowly' and infrequently.

If silicone worked - we would see more AF companies offering a product - its lack of success for any reason means that it is not the answer. Some ship operators who tried silicones have gone back to conventional AF. International trialed it in Holland some years ago - and never commercialised it. It is very difficult to apply, requires costs in isolating the vessel being processed, needs specific personal protective equipment and if you change your mind is a devil to remove (to allow conventional paint to stick).

If you want longer life, be generous, buy top of the range AF, be liberal with your coating and use your yacht.

And this is just the hull - props and anode life also come into the equation. If your anode life is short and you need to slip to replace anodes (or treat the prop again) it might merit using a cheaper, or less AF, to balance the tasks to all be necessary at the same time.

As implied by others - location matters (and varies) the conditions (rain, temperature) where you keep your yacht vary as does how you use your yacht - its all a moveable feast.

Another big issue is how results are reported:

People forget what they did 2 years ago. People claim a 3 or 4 year life - forgetting they store their yacht on the hard over winter, whilst other (like most in Oz or the Caribbean) sail 365 - our season is a year yours might only be 6 months.

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan