Antifoul advice for a newbie

[Fantasie 19]

Hello, I will soon have to scrap back quite a few years worth of anti foul on a Sadler 32 and repaint it

Why? Can you not just give it a rub over with wet and dry and then just paint on top of old?

As to antifoul - they all seem pretty much of a muchness - go for the highest copper content you can afford..

Can't comment on copper coat but from the replies here in the past, there are people who swear by it, and people who don't..

 

[laika]

Sounds good (and a bit bad actually). Were you dry sanding, is that what made you ill? Or just the antifoul getting onto your skin?

Wet. Probably too wet and a lot of it was above my head so got a lot of splashes on me. In fact I looked like something out of a slasher movie with everything not covered by overalls stained with red antifoul-water. I realised I didn't have a towel with me and it was only half way into the walk from QAB and primark to buy one that I started to to worry about being pulled over by armed police...

 

[JollyRodgers]

Toolstation cheaper than B&Q/Screwfix

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p41259
http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p12186

You also want one of these
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200952899387?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT (can't find it in Toolstation!)

and the Bahco type scraper is excellent too get one with a knob on the back like this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Harris-T-...510?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3f47c215a6
New blades are MUCH cheaper from a woodworking supplies place, they are standard plane blades. Solid carbide. Brittle!

Thanks for that, much cheaper!

I also added a flexible bucket to the list. It will come in handy for when I need to clean the chain rust too and soak it in baby oil.

Updated the scraper to this one too - http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000288L...UTF8&colid=1FJ7MKJWNWJRH&coliid=IWIO7OB7L8PW7

and updated the sandpaper.

Do you think the toolstation pole will be good quality? I can imagine cheaper ones breaking very easily due to the pressure. I've never heard of tool station before, so I have no idea what kind of quality they offer. Will get the hand sander too as its cheap. I was just going to wrap some sand paper around a piece of wood or something before.

 

[Plevier]

Thanks for that, much cheaper!

I also added a flexible bucket to the list. It will come in handy for when I need to clean the chain rust too and soak it in baby oil.

Updated the scraper to this one too - http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000288L...UTF8&colid=1FJ7MKJWNWJRH&coliid=IWIO7OB7L8PW7

and updated the sandpaper.

Do you think the toolstation pole will be good quality? I can imagine cheaper ones breaking very easily due to the pressure. I've never heard of tool station before, so I have no idea what kind of quality they offer. Will get the hand sander too as its cheap. I was just going to wrap some sand paper around a piece of wood or something before.

I've just finished doing a 34ft boat with the Toolstation pole. Not broken yet but it is light - which is an advantage, you'll find! I've only been flatting off one layer of a/f though. The sanding mesh works really well, doesn't clog and much longer life than wet or dry . The swivel head is very good (but narrower than the mesh.)

That scraper is b dear (but posher looking)! Try this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Harris-91...378?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item233c851a72 I didn't notice the other was a used auction.

 

[Georgio]

That scraper is b dear (but posher looking)! Try this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Harris-91...378?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item233c851a72 I didn't notice the other was a used auction.

I have bought and used both the Harris scraper and the Bahco scraper. Both are good but the Bahco is worth paying the extra. Blades last longer and the handle is more comfortable on the Bahco. Also the bit of metal holding the blade in place on the Harris bent + the screw kept coming undone (locktite sorted that).

 

[Ric]

If you are going to all the bother of scraping off the old caked anti-foul, then I would definitely apply copper coat anti-foul. I would also get the hull checked for moisture and osmosis, and if it is dry, then apply an epoxy barrier before the coppercoat. The coppercoat does act as an anti-osmosis barrier if applied alone, but better to put down a layer of dedicated epoxy sealant beforehand.

All of this is an added initial expense, but it will pay off in the longer term.

Just slapping on some cheap anti-foul over a stripped hull would be a crime.

 

[Plevier]

I have bought and used both the Harris scraper and the Bahco scraper. Both are good but the Bahco is worth paying the extra. Blades last longer and the handle is more comfortable on the Bahco. Also the bit of metal holding the blade in place on the Harris bent + the screw kept coming undone (locktite sorted that).

Goodness knows who really make these. I have one badged Sandvik that in handle shape is like the Harris, but no back knob, and one badged Hamilton that looks just like the Bahco, with the back knob that I do find useful. I don't really find one handle style easier than the other.
The blade clip isn't awfully good on either of them.
I can't remember what the original blades were like for life. As I mentioned I'm using 65mm power plane blades that I'm sure were about £25 for 10 from a woodworking supplier but they are an awful lot more on ebay! Yes they are solid carbide.

Correction 50mm blades.

 

[Chrissie]

Hi there, you need to think about future costs, every time you lift your boat ashore it will cost hundreds, being a fin keel you could stand it on a scrubbing pad and pressure wash off between tides, and/or anti foul between tides. Your antifoul is currently thick enough to be very bumpy with lots of areas where it has flaked off to bare GRP, this will continue unless you take the oportunity to take it back to GRP while you have the keen fresh incentive.
You could then gel shield, and if the meter shows low enough readings, coppercoat, then in future years you wash it off and give it a quick going over with a nylon scrubber.
Or you could take it back to as neat as practical in the time you have and anti foul, then each year scrubbing pad for a scrub and recoat. I like the look of that roll of stuff Pete has linked to, the pole idea is good too. Dont forget you can still scrape in the rain, though where you are you have to remove all scrapings, but they blow away as much when wet,

 

[alahol2]

and I would need some drywall sanding mesh, like this - http://www.diy.com/departments/norton-expert-120-grit-sandpaper-roll-l5m-w115mm/189431_BQ.prd
I figured I may as well get a roll of it, because I want to sand down other stuff inside and it works out much cheaper to buy more + it's not like it goes out of date really.

What you are pointing at is 'ordinary' sandpaper. That's not really what is wanted for antifouling, it will clog. You want something more like this... http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-868903-Sanding-Mesh-Roll/dp/B001C81X0U

 

[prv]

Your antifoul is currently thick enough to be very bumpy with lots of areas where it has flaked off to bare GRP

You know the boat then - did you survey it for him?

Pete

 

[Spuddy]

I helped a chum slap the copper coating on his boat using materials from Reactive Resins. He'd done some research and reckoned they were the most convincing option - i wouldn't know. Another chum had it done by pros - a disaster, when it came out after a season the crane man said it was some of the worst fouling he'd ever seen.
As for me....I'm using the club power washer, a poke with a scraper here and there followed by a run over with a pan scrubber; then tosh on a couple of coats of antifoul

 

[Fantasie 19]

As for me....I'm using the club power washer, a poke with a scraper here and there followed by a run over with a pan scrubber; then tosh on a couple of coats of antifoul

Amen brother.. :encouragement:

 

[JollyRodgers]

How does this shopping list look so far?

Removing Antifoul;
2x Swivel Sander Heads http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p12186#item_detail
2x Screw on Poles http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Painting+&+Decorating/d150/Decorators+Tools/sd160/Pole/p50469
1x Bahco Paint Scraper http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000288L...UTF8&colid=1FJ7MKJWNWJRH&coliid=IWIO7OB7L8PW7
1x 40L Yellow Flexi Bucket http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p79794
1x Hand Sander http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200952899...IT&clk_rvr_id=787276040589&afsrc=1&rmvSB=true
1x 115mm x 5M Sanding Mesh http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p41259
1x 3M blue tape http://www.amazon.co.uk/ScotchBlue-...8&qid=1425121075&sr=8-1&keywords=3m+blue+tape

Applying the Paint
2x 9" Roller Sleeves http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p93689
2x Wooden Handled Roller http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p41062
1x 15" roller tray http://www.toolstation.com/shop/p86594 (I figured 1 would be better than two, as the paints will be more consistent, not one being thicker than the other by accident)
*2.5L International Gelshield 200 http://marinestore.co.uk/International_Gelshield_200_2_5_Litre.html
2x 3L International Cruiser Uno Navy http://www.piratescave.co.uk/detail...iK1oaHxtyed378ie57pM-d3agNhlFumwoCRoC9Azw_wcB

*How many Litres of Gelshield 200 would I need if I planned on doing 6 coats on it? I've worked out that roughly 5 litres of antifoul would cover 2 coats on my boat. So does that mean that I would need 15Litres of Gelshield? That's £510 if so. I haven't read too much into the gelshield yet (am just about to) so dont know if its diluted with water or something before applying.

How does my shopping list look?

Will obviously add the boilers suits, gloves and masks for safety.

Going to be starting work on Sunday 15th March.

 

[prv]

Most of it looks fine for a normal job of rubbing back the old antifoul and applying new (though I might go for the second roller tray since there's two of you, your different paint worry is unfounded). Presumably the masking tape properly belongs on the "applying the paint" list rather than the "removing" one.

The one that's questionable is the gelshield. That's something you'd use on a clean, bare, preferably blasted, hull. Not part of a normal winter's antifoul job. So which option are you planning to take, or did you get mixed up between two of them? My recommendation is still to ignore all the bare gelcoat ideas for now, rub back the old antifoul and apply two coats of new. At most perhaps a barrier coat over the old to ensure compatibility (I used to use Jotun Vinyguard but that's from their merchant shipping range which they're doing their best to keep away from yotties now in favour of the expensive versions).

I've never looked into it myself, but £500+ for the materials to epoxy a hull sounds entirely believable, yes. So are you sure you need to do it?

Pete

 

[JollyRodgers]

Most of it looks fine for a normal job of rubbing back the old antifoul and applying new (though I might go for the second roller tray since there's two of you, your different paint worry is unfounded). Presumably the masking tape properly belongs on the "applying the paint" list rather than the "removing" one.

The one that's questionable is the gelshield. That's something you'd use on a clean, bare, preferably blasted, hull. Not part of a normal winter's antifoul job. So which option are you planning to take, or did you get mixed up between two of them? My recommendation is still to ignore all the bare gelcoat ideas for now, rub back the old antifoul and apply two coats of new. At most perhaps a barrier coat over the old to ensure compatibility (I used to use Jotun Vinyguard but that's from their merchant shipping range which they're doing their best to keep away from yotties now in favour of the expensive versions).

I've never looked into it myself, but £500+ for the materials to epoxy a hull sounds entirely believable, yes. So are you sure you need to do it?

Pete

Ah yes, accidentally put the tape on the wrong list. Will grab 2 roller trays then - theyre cheap anyway, so would save us walked around on underneath the boat every time we wanted to roll more on.

From what I have read and been told, it seems as though it would be a shame for me not to gelshield the boat before applying antifoul for the following reasons;

*Hull would already be bear onto gelcoat
*Gives me extra protection against moisture getting in
*helps smooth other the entire surface of the boat
*It's relatively quick to apply and dry and would act as a good base for the antifoul to go onto.
*Helps cover up any imperfections
*Long lasting

Cons:
It's not exactly cheap
Extra work/time, when I am under a bit of time pressure to get it back into the water

Personally, I think that the pro's outweigh the con's with regards to Gelshield.

I am using the same antifoul as the previous owners used, so there won't be any compatibility issues.

 

[prv]

From what I have read and been told, it seems as though it would be a shame for me not to gelshield the boat before applying antifoul

In that case, understand that you need to do a lot more than just sand back ready for re-antifouling. You need to be removing every bit of old antifouling, back to bare polyester, and really ought to be at least considering blasting.

I am using the same antifoul as the previous owners used, so there won't be any compatibility issues.

If you can write this, following the above, I'm not convinced you've understood the process...

Pete

 

[JollyRodgers]

If you can write this, following the above, I'm not convinced you've understood the process...

Pete

I mean't if I decide to go the route you suggest and not the gelshield route.

I've just realised that I am away on business for the weekend of the 21/22, so would really only have Sunday 15th and will have to do everything else mid-week. The boat needs to be out on the water on the weekend of the 28/29th.

I'm now thinking that is may just be best as others have said in here, sand down the antifoul so it's relatively smooth and then apply the same antifoul on top of that. When the boat is next out of the water, next winter, then I can slurry blast it all off and apply the Gelshield and new antifoul when I have much more time. I guess if it has been fine for the last 30 years or so, then it should be fine to leave it 9 more months or so.

 

[jac]

No way will you be able to strip all the antifoul off, two of you with just hand tools to a standard adequate for gelshield in that time frame.

If you decide to buy it. Take my advice. Having bought the gelshield, just throw it straight in the marina skip. Will cost the same as applying it, you will save several days effort and then won't need to blast what's left of it off next winter.

In that time frame, scrape off and smooth it. Primocon or other suitable primer for your antifoul, 2 coats of AF.

Next winter, arrange for blasting. ARC antifoul have been recommended several times by people round here. Run by Ellesar who hangs around in the MOBO forum but don't hold that against him. Blasting will get it all off and then you can apply epoxy and either coppercoat or AF.