Anti Submarine barrier - No Mans Land Fort

[jac]

Probably more suitable for a Military History Forum but as I'm not a member of one....

The Sub Barrier at Southsea is well known but also used to have a twin running SW from No Mans Land Fort towards the shoals on the Island shore. This has been removed.

Anyone got any idea why that one was removed yet they left the Southsea one in place. I was assuming that many boats got caught whilst trying to sneak inshore near Ryde sands but then thought that surely many more boats must be heading from Chichester towards Pompey making that the biggest risk?

So anyone know why ( and when) it happened?

 

[nicho]

Probably more suitable for a Military History Forum but as I'm not a member of one....

The Sub Barrier at Southsea is well known but also used to have a twin running SW from No Mans Land Fort towards the shoals on the Island shore. This has been removed.

Anyone got any idea why that one was removed yet they left the Southsea one in place. I was assuming that many boats got caught whilst trying to sneak inshore near Ryde sands but then thought that surely many more boats must be heading from Chichester towards Pompey making that the biggest risk?

So anyone know why ( and when) it happened?

Was it physically removed? I though it had simply crumbled away to be no longer hazardous, but stand to be corrected.

 

[jac]

Was it physically removed? I though it had simply crumbled away to be no longer hazardous, but stand to be corrected.

Got last years Reeds on my desk in front of me. It says
"The barrier to the SW of the former [No Mans land Fort] has been demolished.........."

 

[Poignard]

As a matter of interest (to me, at any rate) which Government organisation is responsible for this sort of work?

 

[prv]

Was it physically removed? I though it had simply crumbled away to be no longer hazardous, but stand to be corrected.

Maybe that's what started the process, but I believe they wire-swept it some years ago to guarantee a particular minimum clearance.

Pete

 

[Just_sayin']

Pedant mode

They never were anti-submarine barriers. They were sub-marine as in underwater.

 

[DJE]

I believe that the No Mans Land barrier was removed or wire swept in order to gaurantee a safe channel for small boats on the inshore side of the fort so to keep them out of the main channel.

 

[Daedelus]

I heard a lovely story years ago that the inshore Dolphin gap didn't exist and there was at the time a port Admiral who was very keen on racing.

He was close to being overall winner at the final race but had to win to get first overall. His pals all though he was mad when he aimed straight at the submarine barrier while they took the long way through the forts. But he swept through and to victory. In the bar afterwards they congratulated him and said he was insane to take the risk. He then said that a passage was due to be made anyway and he had simply given instructions for it to be done and there had been an unfortunate delay in promulgating the advice to all: it would be in next week's QHM notices to mariners.

I don't suppose the inshore bit for the barrier close to the Island was done for the RTI tho'

 

[KevB]

The barrier close to the island was removed in 2004

 

[haydude]

The barrier close to the island was removed in 2004

Could someone post a link to where we get this information officially? I always assumed the barrier was there as charted and thus I always sail the long way around.

 

[prv]

I always assumed the barrier was there as charted

Errm, I'm fairly sure it isn't charted. Or rather, the minimum safe depth that it was swept to is stated. How old are your charts?

EDIT: Here we go, via VisitMyHarbour:

The place where it used to be is now marked as having at least 2m below datum.

Pete

 

[Mark-1]

I heard a lovely story years ago that the inshore Dolphin gap didn't exist and there was at the time a port Admiral who was very keen on racing.

He was close to being overall winner at the final race but had to win to get first overall. His pals all though he was mad when he aimed straight at the submarine barrier while they took the long way through the forts. But he swept through and to victory. In the bar afterwards they congratulated him and said he was insane to take the risk. He then said that a passage was due to be made anyway and he had simply given instructions for it to be done and there had been an unfortunate delay in promulgating the advice to all: it would be in next week's QHM notices to mariners.

I don't suppose the inshore bit for the barrier close to the Island was done for the RTI tho'

Was the dolphin gap "created"? I always assumed they just chose on of the gaps between the blocks that remain? It looks like it's the right width for that.

Regarding the Island side I've been assuming nature removed the barrier and a quick bit of light dredging cleared the remainder and the mainland side is too much bother to clear because there are massive blocks still in place. I think word was out and people went through the island side before it was formally cleared so it can't have needed much clearing.

Can anyone confirm/deny these assumptions, made from memory without the slightest evidence?

 

[jac]

So what made the Island side crumble when the Southsea side still looks pretty substantial. Climate isn't that different!

 

[Mark-1]

So what made the Island side crumble when the Southsea side still looks pretty substantial. Climate isn't that different!

Without sound evidence beyond word of mouth I've always assumed it was wood construction instead of the concrete and wood construction of the mainland side.

 

[Giblets]

Looking on the latest chart there is a outlined area that extends SW of Horse Sand Fort that states "Least depth 2m".

 

[Giblets]

The following is taken from the Solent Handbook:

Since the submerged barrier between No Man's Land Fort was removed passage can be made inshore of the fort with a least depth of 2m over foul ground between the Fort and the red post to the southwest, which is useful when approaching from the south. Once past the fort make sure to avoid the extensive Ryde Sands by staying far enough north to clear the red post at the northeastern extremity of the Sands by a decent margin. Note that the Sands to the west of the post extend slightly north of it so don't cut the corner near Low Water.

 

[Mark-1]

Without sound evidence beyond word of mouth I've always assumed it was wood construction instead of the concrete and wood construction of the mainland side.

Just checked P91 of Solent Hazards by Peter Bruce.

The Island side *was* a different construction and was removed after WW2. However, it remained marked and nobody really believed it had been done properly until 2005 when it was properly removed/surveyed and charted as cleared.

So thanks to Mr Bruce that answers all the OP's questions.

If you google "no mans land fort" + barrier you can read it for yourself.

 

[prv]

Looking on the latest chart there is a outlined area that extends SW of Horse Sand Fort that states "Least depth 2m".

Like in post #11, you mean

Pete

 

[Pete7]

Was the dolphin gap "created"? I always assumed they just chose on of the gaps between the blocks that remain? It looks like it's the right width for that.

Having dived the blocks on the Southsea side I can confirm the blocks are about the size of a large transit van with a similar sized gap in between. So they must have removed several to create the Dolphn Gap.

 

[Mark-1]

Having dived the blocks on the Southsea side I can confirm the blocks are about the size of a large transit van with a similar sized gap in between. So they must have removed several to create the Dolphn Gap.

Thanks!