Another what electronics package/brand question.......

[dolabriform]

Just another thing to add.
If you already have a tablet, do you really need a 9" plotter?
I went with the 7" and the resolution is amazing, more than enough for what I need, however if I want a bigger display I just connect my iPad to it over wifi and I have a 9.7" display.
Force 4 are doing the Vulcan 7 FS for £499 + charts which works out to be really cost effective, especially if you need to buy and Actisense NGW-1 for the AP.

Vulcan 7 £499
Navionics Charts between £149 and £399 depending on the area of coverage you need.
Actisense NGW-1 £129
DST-800 Transducer £260
Also, whatever plotter you decide on you will need a N2K backbone, budget around £140 for that ( starter kit + extras ).

Regards

David

 

[adwuk]

There's a lot of talk about plotter/AP integration, but what exactly do you want the AP to do ? Obviously steering a compass heading isn't an issue, it'll do that stand alone. Steering to a waypoint ought to be OK.

With the B&G Zeus, and our Simrad autopilot, the plotter can act as a control screen - i.e. engage/disengage the drive, switch modes from heading to wind etc, and was certainly required for the commissioning of the drive. I really doubt if this sort of functionality would be possible in a mixed vendor setup, largely because I don't believe that the standards are there for message types. I agree with you that compass headings, depths and wind angles can feed from 3rd party sensors, but the control aspect is the part I would be most concerned about.

 

[maby]

...

There's a lot of talk about plotter/AP integration, but what exactly do you want the AP to do ? Obviously steering a compass heading isn't an issue, it'll do that stand alone. Steering to a waypoint ought to be OK.

It is pretty much a question of steering to a waypoint really - I like to be able to stab my finger at a point on the screen, tell the plotter to "take me there" and then sit back with a cold beer (ooops, that's going to be banned soon!) till it beeps to tell me that we are arriving. On our original multi-manufacturer solution, I could point at Dover, tell it to "take me there" and we would just as likely arrive in Cowes. That is why I was warning the OP to be careful before mixing Garmin with Raymarine or Simrad.

 

[PaulRainbow]

With the B&G Zeus, and our Simrad autopilot, the plotter can act as a control screen - i.e. engage/disengage the drive, switch modes from heading to wind etc, and was certainly required for the commissioning of the drive. I really doubt if this sort of functionality would be possible in a mixed vendor setup, largely because I don't believe that the standards are there for message types. I agree with you that compass headings, depths and wind angles can feed from 3rd party sensors, but the control aspect is the part I would be most concerned about.

This is correct. Much of the enhanced functionality between the AP and plotter isn't covered by the NMEA standards, the sentences are propitiatory and that's why they won't play together.

I'm fitting some new electronics on a boat for a customer and as part of the planning we discussed what he wanted from the system, as he wanted a new plotter, radar and AIS, but didn't want to change the AP unless he had to. He only uses it to steer a compass heading, so for him, it didn't matter how well they integrated. In fact, he doesn't even want the AP to be connected to anything else, which is why i asked the OP what he wanted it to do.

Actually, my own Simrad WP32 isn't connected to anything else, i also just use it to steer a compass heading. I'll connect it the the Garmin chart plotter and see how well they get along.

 

[PaulRainbow]

It is pretty much a question of steering to a waypoint really - I like to be able to stab my finger at a point on the screen, tell the plotter to "take me there" and then sit back with a cold beer (ooops, that's going to be banned soon!) till it beeps to tell me that we are arriving. On our original multi-manufacturer solution, I could point at Dover, tell it to "take me there" and we would just as likely arrive in Cowes. That is why I was warning the OP to be careful before mixing Garmin with Raymarine or Simrad.

Not doubting you had an issue, but steering to a waypoint should be fine. The sentences for doing so are part of the NMEA standards. Without doubt, mixing and matching does sometimes cause headaches, although when i said so a while back in another thread i was ridiculed by one or two

As i said in the previous post, i'll connect my Simrad AP to the Garmin plotter and see how much of the functionality works.

 

[maby]

...

As i said in the previous post, i'll connect my Simrad AP to the Garmin plotter and see how much of the functionality works.

You may get lucky! I guess that the difference is that you already have the various components - the OP is planning a new system and was talking about a mixed-manufacturer installation - I have had my fingers burned doing that and I would advise a single manufacturer solution unless you can find a dealer who is prepared to guarantee that the combination he is selling will coexist.

The NMEA specifications don't really deal with auto pilots - there are standard sentences that should work for communications between the plotter and AP computer, but my experience is that many manufacturers make use of custom sentences and are not particularly interested in helping you link their product to that of another manufacturer.

 

[pvb]

The NMEA specifications don't really deal with auto pilots - there are standard sentences that should work for communications between the plotter and AP computer, but my experience is that many manufacturers make use of custom sentences and are not particularly interested in helping you link their product to that of another manufacturer.

Which is what I said in post 13, a single-make system should guarantee full integration. My all-Garmin system works brilliantly.

 

[James W]

If only Garmin made a tiller pilot!

 

[PaulRainbow]

If only Garmin made a tiller pilot!

Yes, odd that they don't.

As i asked earlier, what do you want the auto pilot to do ? Do you actually want to integrate it into the navigation system ?

If you only want it to steer a compass heading there is no need to integrate it. If you want it to steer to a waypoint, mixing manufacturers should work. If you want it to do other things, like take account of wind/tides etc then it is unlikely to do those things.

 

[James W]

Yes, odd that they don't.

As i asked earlier, what do you want the auto pilot to do ? Do you actually want to integrate it into the navigation system ?

If you only want it to steer a compass heading there is no need to integrate it. If you want it to steer to a waypoint, mixing manufacturers should work. If you want it to do other things, like take account of wind/tides etc then it is unlikely to do those things.

I'll be honest Paul, I want it to do everything, or at least have the ability to do everything. If the technology is there, why not take advantage of it?

For that reason, the B&G appears to fit the bill with the opportunity to integrate with the Simrad TP32. I really like the Garmin, especially the fact that it has a well regarded wireless wind, but if it won't fully integrate then I'm less keen. The only question now is 7" vs 9" screen......

 

[maby]

I'll be honest Paul, I want it to do everything, or at least have the ability to do everything. If the technology is there, why not take advantage of it?

For that reason, the B&G appears to fit the bill with the opportunity to integrate with the Simrad TP32. I really like the Garmin, especially the fact that it has a well regarded wireless wind, but if it won't fully integrate then I'm less keen. The only question now is 7" vs 9" screen......

Are you going to install it all yourself, or get a professional in? If the latter, then if you really want Garmin, then ask around to find out if there is anyone willing to guarantee successful integration. We are not saying that a mixed manufacturer solution will definitely not work, simply that there have been examples of it not working.

That said, if I had the choice between B&G and Garmin, then B&G would win every time.

 

[James W]

Are you going to install it all yourself, or get a professional in? If the latter, then if you really want Garmin, then ask around to find out if there is anyone willing to guarantee successful integration. We are not saying that a mixed manufacturer solution will definitely not work, simply that there have been examples of it not working.

That said, if I had the choice between B&G and Garmin, then B&G would win every time.

As with everything, whether it is fitted professionally or by myself, depends on the price. I'm not dead set on Garmin, I'd just like something that works and integrates nicely and intuitively.

The new B&G 7R with the possibility of radar at a later date (even though it's not in my thinking now) is looking like being my starting point right now.....especially at £580.00 http://www.cactusnav.com/vulcan-7inch-chartplotter-radar-display-with-global-basemap-p-22396.html

 

[PaulRainbow]

I'll be honest Paul, I want it to do everything, or at least have the ability to do everything. If the technology is there, why not take advantage of it?

For that reason, the B&G appears to fit the bill with the opportunity to integrate with the Simrad TP32. I really like the Garmin, especially the fact that it has a well regarded wireless wind, but if it won't fully integrate then I'm less keen. The only question now is 7" vs 9" screen......

Personal choice regarding screen size, but i find 7" too small. I'd go for a 9" plotter, whatever make you decide on.

 

[maby]

As with everything, whether it is fitted professionally or by myself, depends on the price. I'm not dead set on Garmin, I'd just like something that works and integrates nicely and intuitively.

The new B&G 7R with the possibility of radar at a later date (even though it's not in my thinking now) is looking like being my starting point right now.....especially at £580.00 http://www.cactusnav.com/vulcan-7inch-chartplotter-radar-display-with-global-basemap-p-22396.html

Well, if radar is a possible requirement, definitely go B&G or Raymarine. I've used both and had Raymarine on our previous boat - we have Garmin now and the best that they can currently do is rubbish in comparison.

 

[pagoda]

Personal choice regarding screen size, but i find 7" too small. I'd go for a 9" plotter, whatever make you decide on.

We chose the 9" Vulcan. It works well in all weathers and integrated with the previous generation of B&G harware without much difficulty. We build an N2K backbone and found the process simple. Their service support appears pretty good.

 

[PaulRainbow]

I'll be honest Paul, I want it to do everything, or at least have the ability to do everything. If the technology is there, why not take advantage of it?

You also need to watch the smoke screen James. Much has been said about custom/proprietary sentences, that the AP won't be able to understand. This might be true if you were fitting a new fancy AP along with the plotter, this equally applies to other electronics too, where, for instance, advanced VHF or AIS sentences are used.

Custom sentences can be used by manufacturers to make their equipment do things above and beyond the stuff covered by the NMEA standards. Your TP32 has a limited number of features, all of which are covered by standard sentences. No matter what plotter you connect it to, it won't be able to do anything more, because it won't understand the custom messages from any manufacturer.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Just connected my Simrad WP32 to the Garmin echoMAP Plus 95sv. A simple two wire connection, no fuss. The AP recognises the fact that the plotter is sending it data and allows the nav' functions to be executed, as i expected it would. The AP is trying to steer to a waypoint i put in, but as i'm in the marina i can't say how well it will achieve it, but i don't expect any issues. I'm going on a trip at the end of the week, will put it through its paces on the way. Hopefully have the new Garmin gWind fitted before i go, see how well it steers to wind.

 

[James W]

Just connected my Simrad WP32 to the Garmin echoMAP Plus 95sv. A simple two wire connection, no fuss. The AP recognises the fact that the plotter is sending it data and allows the nav' functions to be executed, as i expected it would. The AP is trying to steer to a waypoint i put in, but as i'm in the marina i can't say how well it will achieve it, but i don't expect any issues. I'm going on a trip at the end of the week, will put it through its paces on the way. Hopefully have the new Garmin gWind fitted before i go, see how well it steers to wind.

Thanks Paul, it will be really interesting to see if it can communicate with the G-Wind.

 

[maby]

Just connected my Simrad WP32 to the Garmin echoMAP Plus 95sv. A simple two wire connection, no fuss. The AP recognises the fact that the plotter is sending it data and allows the nav' functions to be executed, as i expected it would. The AP is trying to steer to a waypoint i put in, but as i'm in the marina i can't say how well it will achieve it, but i don't expect any issues. I'm going on a trip at the end of the week, will put it through its paces on the way. Hopefully have the new Garmin gWind fitted before i go, see how well it steers to wind.

What you describe must be an NMEA0183 connection which is likely to be less troublesome, but also less functional, than the modern NMEA2000 networking.

 

[PaulRainbow]

What you describe must be an NMEA0183 connection which is likely to be less troublesome, but also less functional, than the modern NMEA2000 networking.

Why less troublesome ?

When i get the gWind i'll connect it using N2K, see how that compares.