Another Tragic Incident in the Aegean

[solent clown]

I don’t think I could describe it as a rich tapestry. Seven young children died in the incident I referenced in the OP and I see little basic human compassion on here. Posters come on pontificating about migration and how it should be discouraged and some are just short of blaming the migrants themselves for their plight. Those of us who are parents especially those of us from less well off backgrounds know how much we want our children to have a better chance in life. Parents in desperate circumstances are forced into desperate measures to try to get a better life for their kids or to escape immediate life threatening situations. I hope none of us are ever in a similar situation but I do think it would benefit people to sit down now and again and imagine what you would do if your children were in the same hopeless purgatory. Are people who express concerns about the difficulty migrants have integrating actually more concerned about how they might disturb our comfortable lives? I’d say it would be much easier for them to integrate if they weren’t treated like unwelcome vermin.

amen to that.
some of us on here have bitter experience of the effects of "military intervention" from NI to the Balkans, Iraq, and Op Herrick.
Make love not war. In thought and deed

 

[JumbleDuck]

I hope none of us are ever in a similar situation but I do think it would benefit people to sit down now and again and imagine what you would do if your children were in the same hopeless purgatory.

Well said. Some of the posters here would I fear have argued - as many did at the time - that Jewish people should have stayed in 1930s Germany and take what was coming to them. Even the Kindertransports met with some vehement opposition at the time.

 

[macd]

+ another, Irish Rover.

 

[chrishscorp]

I don’t think I could describe it as a rich tapestry. Seven young children died in the incident I referenced in the OP and I see little basic human compassion on here. Posters come on pontificating about migration and how it should be discouraged and some are just short of blaming the migrants themselves for their plight. Those of us who are parents especially those of us from less well off backgrounds know how much we want our children to have a better chance in life. Parents in desperate circumstances are forced into desperate measures to try to get a better life for their kids or to escape immediate life threatening situations. I hope none of us are ever in a similar situation but I do think it would benefit people to sit down now and again and imagine what you would do if your children were in the same hopeless purgatory. Are people who express concerns about the difficulty migrants have integrating actually more concerned about how they might disturb our comfortable lives? I’d say it would be much easier for them to integrate if they weren’t treated like unwelcome vermin.

+1
The vast bulk of this problem has been caused by us and our allies bombing these countries and rearranging how they are run, we have sown the seeds and some on here complain about the whirlwind.

 

[Blue Sunray]

amen to that.
some of us on here have bitter experience of the effects of "military intervention" from NI to the Balkans, Iraq, and Op Herrick.
Make love not war. In thought and deed

Indeed, but look what happened to the Oxfam blokes who tried that.

 

[JumbleDuck]

+1
The vast bulk of this problem has been caused by us and our allies bombing these countries and rearranging how they are run ...

Cheerfully propping up a host of murderous dictators for decades beforehand hasn't exactly helped either.

 

[Blue Sunray]

Cheerfully propping up a host of murderous dictators for decades beforehand hasn't exactly helped either.

Trite and inaccurate.

 

[nortada]

They should be discouraged from setting off in the first place. Yes, a tragedy, but all of them should be stopped and returned. Rescuing them and allowing to stay only creates a demand, let some in, the rest will try as well. Some effort should be made to set up camps in Africa for these people. Maybe there's a good case for military intervention.

Sad - very. Military intervention - never. Whose military and what do you want them to do?

 

[JumbleDuck]

Trite and inaccurate.

Saddam Hussein was Our (the West's) Man from the start, to give just one example. So was the Shah, and his delightful Savak. So was Barre in Somalia, after he gave up on the USSR.

 

[Heckler]

I have read some daft comments before, but these go the extra mile. "These people"? do you include the young children as "these people"?

It's funny how these "economic migrants" seem to overwhelmingly come from those countries and areas devastated by war and disaster. They are refugees.

Brits going to europe for work in the 70's were economic migrants, poles coming to the uk are economic migrants. Being a european economic migrant is neither illegal or a big deal. By definition, almost all migrants are economic ones. Most people move to work somewhere and earn some money, they don't do it to sample the beer and the wine.

Military intervention sometimes works, but usually causes more harm than good. Military intervention in Germany in the late 1930's would simply have started world war 2 early and probably have resulted in Germany winning it, as the americans would probably not have got involved at all and hitler would not have double crossed russia till he had won in the west.. The idea that it would have prevented it is laughable.

Oh dear me, the so called "children" that were let in by Mother T turned out to be not children, then if we look closer we see lots of males and come to the conclusion that perhapsall is not what it seems!

 

[Blue Sunray]

Saddam Hussein was Our (the West's) Man from the start, to give just one example. So was the Shah, and his delightful Savak. So was Barre in Somalia, after he gave up on the USSR.

Poor, try googling for a few examples relevant to this millennium.

 

[Tomahawk]

Sad - very. Military intervention - never. Whose military and what do you want them to do?

Whilst agreeing with you regarding military intervention, what possible solutions do exist?

Remember that migrants crossing from Turkey can actually make it across the border, even in open inflatables. That leaves just two awkward possibilities. Let people drown or internment of everyone on the boats and no release unless back to Turkey? Neither of these will play well with the press and social meedia.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Poor, try googling for a few examples relevant to this millennium.

You'll note that my post was about our history of supporting dictators over decades. But if you want a current dictator enjoying Western support, how about Erdogan?

 

[Irish Rover]

You'll note that my post was about our history of supporting dictators over decades. But if you want a current dictator enjoying Western support, how about Erdogan?

What in the name of God are you talking about. America or rather Trump has declared all out economic war against Turkey and Turkey’s relations with Germany and the rest of Europe are perilously strained. There is a full blown economic crisis here. Exactly what Western support do you mean?

 

[JumbleDuck]

What in the name of God are you talking about. America or rather Trump has declared all out economic war against Turkey and Turkey’s relations with Germany and the rest of Europe are perilously strained. There is a full blown economic crisis here. Exactly what Western support do you mean?

Still in NATO. Still our allies against the Kurds, in those places where the Kurds aren't our allies against Daesh, in those places where Daesh aren't our allies against Assad, in those places where Assad isn't our ally against Al Qaeda. And Mr Erdogan got a state visit to the UK earlier this year, which is more than Donald Trump did.

 

[Irish Rover]

As I said earlier there are some absolute idiots posting on this forum.

 

[RichardS]

As I said earlier there are some absolute idiots posting on this forum.

Still all part of life's rich tapestry.

Richard

 

[Metabarca]

They should be discouraged from setting off in the first place. Yes, a tragedy, but all of them should be stopped and returned. Rescuing them and allowing to stay only creates a demand, let some in, the rest will try as well. Some effort should be made to set up camps in Africa for these people. Maybe there's a good case for military intervention.

Typical half-baked response by someone not wishing to engage brain. If these people are trying to get out of Turkey, they will be Syrians, Afghans and Iraqis, all of them fleeing war zones and trying to stay alive. I don't know what the solution is but the complete lack of empathy and understanding shown by s'dog here, repeated n million times around the world can only make it harder for governments to form any useful policy. Camps in Africa? Military intervention? Where? To what end? Who pays?

 

[KellysEye]

There should be a blockade of the coast to stop all immigrant boats that would stop the deaths.

 

[Tomahawk]

Typical half-baked response by someone not wishing to engage brain. If these people are trying to get out of Turkey, they will be Syrians, Afghans and Iraqis, all of them fleeing war zones and trying to stay alive. I don't know what the solution is but the complete lack of empathy and understanding shown by s'dog here, repeated n million times around the world can only make it harder for governments to form any useful policy. Camps in Africa? Military intervention? Where? To what end? Who pays?

Syrians, Afghans, Iraqis, Iranians, Palestinians, Libyans, Tunisians, are all amongst the mixture of people fleeing war and conflict. There is of course one thing in common with those countries. They are all muslim.