Another spleen venting re brokers

[Jonnysailboat]

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Broker was asked to arrange for boat to be recomissioned for survey

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If the broker agreed to prepare the vessel for survey; then you have good grounds to shout & scream if the work was not carried out to your satisfaction, although the preparations would have had to have been authorized by the vendor before being carried out by the broker (even the cleaning!).

One suggestion would be to have your Surveyor supply a list of requirements to the broker prior to his next visit. That way, once the list has been agreed by all parties involved, the brokerage will know exactly what is expected of them, and you’ll have a ‘tick-list’ that can be used to measure their effort.

I actually drove from the North-West to Devon to view my boat! 540 miles round-trip! I only did it once though! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Sneds]

We fell in love, just you seemed to have done, and were talking ourselves into it, even after a crap survey on a boat that ticked every box and looked superb.
We got our deposit back and walked, tails between our legs, and are still looking.
We have since seen boats that are far more impressive than the original one. They are out there, take off the rose tinted specs and walk.
You can soon save up for another survey.
If in doubt, don't!

That my two penneth worth, happy hunting, as frustating as it is.
"I want it now!" /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[ari]

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Sorry, I just can't agree with that....

A brokers job is to ensure that a boat is sold, not just to deliver advertising, contacts and paperwork management.....

IMHO, its just the fact that the brokers never seem to want to get their hands dirty...

If I was a broker, and the boatswere in my yard, I'd try my hardest to keep them clean.... they surely don't have 9 to 5 appointments to see boats 7 days a week?

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And yet strangely no one expects an estate agent to pop over with his ladders and give the house windows a scrub, run the Dyson about, and mow the lawn.

Funny that... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

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And yet strangely no one expects an estate agent to pop over with his ladders and give the house windows a scrub, run the Dyson about, and mow the lawn.
>>>

But you do expect a pre-owned car to be clean and functional inside and out and the car dealer does seem to see this as part of his job. Its an interesting crossover between house and car perhaps. Probably the house analogy isn't strictly fair, the house is usually still lived in and if vacant possesion you expect (or I have done when buying same) things to be tattier.

 

[Jonnysailboat]

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But you do expect a pre-owned car to be clean and functional inside and out and the car dealer does seem to see this as part of his job.

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Difference being car dealers own the cars they're selling whereas brokers don't own the boats the sell and therefore have no rights to do anything with them without the owners consent. Also; houses that are sold while occupied are maintained by the occupiers (vendors?); not the estate agents. Believe me; I've had many conversations with brokers on or around this very subject over the past few years! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Major Catastrophe]

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But you do expect a pre-owned car to be clean and functional inside and out and the car dealer does seem to see this as part of his job.

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Difference being car dealers own the cars they're selling whereas brokers don't own the boats the sell and therefore have no rights to do anything with them without the owners consent. Also; houses that are sold while occupied are maintained by the occupiers (vendors?); not the estate agents. Believe me; I've had many conversations with brokers on or around this very subject over the past few years! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

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I love business sectors that say, "Well, it's not done this way in this industry." Well, why doesn't someone break the mould and try a bit of pro-active selling instead of this awful attitude.

If I was running a brokerage, I would employ the boaty equivelant of the wash and bucket man you see on most used car forecourts and with permission of the owners, every boat would be swabbed, polished, hoovered and checked over in rotation.

After my experience at the so called great Essex Boatyards - I wouldn't step into their premises again if they were the last brokerage left - I thought back then that they were nothing better than a car breaker's yard, with disinterested staff and disgustingly dirty boats.

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

>>>
If I was running a brokerage, I would employ the boaty equivelant of the wash and bucket man you see on most used car forecourts and with permission of the owners, every boat would be swabbed, polished, hoovered and checked over in rotation.
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I'm with the Major on this one. If I end up making a purchase then pretty soon afterwards I'll be trying to make a sale, or rather a broker will be doing so on my behalf. While the boat will go to brokerage spit spot spat squeaky clean shiny with charged batteries and so forth, if it sits for a couple of months (Heaven forfend!) then local birds will attend, as they do, to canopy and platform, batteries would like to be on charge now and again and I'd drian the water system so green things didn't grow in it. The broker gets 8% or whatever of the sale price in return for "boat is third out on C, here are the keys" some photographs and bit of internet editing. Followed, hopefully, by some paperwork and wedge. OK, exaggerated for effect, but I wonder by how much?

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Precisely!

 

[Jonnysailboat]

Maybe you should approach your local brokerage service with your suggestions, what you're suggesting has probably never been put to them before. I'm sure they'll react to your ideas and opinions with a great deal of enthusiasm.

 

[jhr]

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I'm sure they'll react to your ideas and opinions with a great deal of enthusiasm.

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[Phoenix of Hamble]

No,

I suspect they'd say... don't be silly, go away.... or words to that effect....

Sadly.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I am presuming you and the vendor signed an agreement over the sale - subject to survey. This contract dictates what happens with problems in the survey, and as to how they are financially resolved.

1. It is not the job of the surveyor to VALUE the boat. You valued it at the time you entered into the sales agreement.

2. The surveyor will list the items that are known faults, state in his opinion what the remedy is, and YOU should then get these costed - or say to the vendor -depending on your contract - that you want these items - which were not declared as faulty - put right. If this is over a certain % value of the sale agreement, then the vendor can just hand back your deposit money.

If you get the items costed yourself - it would be expected that for structural items (ie not wear and tear and electronics) to charge £ for £ on a price reduction.

3. You can reserve further for the boat to be presented (as should be required in the contract) in a fit state for survey. This is often done, that a sea trial reservation will be added in - a must in my view for a power boat. Any faults will also come off the selling price.

So its not a question of you now thinking it is only worth 70% of the price you agreed in the contract. You HAVE to justify it. - The contracts are quite explicit on the conduct of the survey. Your surveyor AND the broker should have made you aware of the process and consequenses.

There are normally time limits set for you to respond with the results of a survey - usually 2 weeks. If you have not done so formally - you could end up in law owing the full amount to the vendor.

Good luck! you need to remain positive with the vendor - he still needs to know you a serious.

 

[duncan]

not disputing your points Chris - only your conclusions.

the survayor has higlighted those areas he was unable to survey properly because of the condition the boat was presented for survey.

he's put a price/cost on a worst case basis against these.

the vendor is not minded to accept a 'corrected/revised' offer based on these as he doesn't believe the worst case scenario relistic - the vendor agrees but doesn't feel it's he's in a position to resolve; hence looking for a way forward.............

meanwhile the vendor it upset with the broker with whom he had a seperate (or specific) agreement regarding having the boat sorted and ready for survey

or have I missed something (op[en to all!)

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Can't agree there. The surveyor's valuation can be essential. If you're getting a mortgage on a boat, the finance company wants to see a copy of the survey and the surveyor's valuation. They need to be assured that the boat is worth what the buyer says it is and that their loan is secured. So the surveyor's valuation is vital and if it's a lot lower than the agreed purchase price, the finance co may well refuse to agree the loan
That's one reason why you need to get a surveyor who is familiar with the type of boat he is surveying

 

[Major Catastrophe]

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1. It is not the job of the surveyor to VALUE the boat. You valued it at the time you entered into the sales agreement.

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That has just shot down all of what I thought a surveyor did for a living.

So, who do I go to to get a boat avlued for finance, 'cause I am certainly not going to trust a broker?

 

[Jonnysailboat]

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So, who do I go to to get a boat avlued for finance, 'cause I am certainly not going to trust a broker?

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Look at it this way! What sector of the marine industry, in your opinion, is best placed to offer the most accurate estimate of current market value?... bearing in mind that "market value" is relative; i.e. it's based on what that particular type of boat is currently selling for.

Also, have you ever thought about how a surveyor arrives at his valuation?

 

[Major Catastrophe]

I think I would rather trust my appointed surveyor to give a finance house a true value rather than some Swiss Tony of a broker.

After all, I consult Glass's Guide to value my car than the local used car salesman.

When I re-mortgage my house every two years the bank sends a surveyor to value the property, not the estate agent.

 

[Jonnysailboat]

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I think I would rather trust my appointed surveyor to give a finance house a true value rather than some Swiss Tony of a broker.

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But have you thought about how a surveyor arrives at his valuation? Do you imagine he holds a data-bank of every boat on the planet in his head? Can he simply look at a boat and immediately know how much it was when new, what depreciation he should factor in; and how much this boat is currently selling for?

Where do you imagine he gets his figures from?

 

[Major Catastrophe]

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But have you thought about how a surveyor arrives at his valuation?

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I don't want to get into a daft argument, but he arrives at his valuation by grubbing around in the bilges, inspecting the hull, testing the on board equipment, testing the engine oil and the hundreds of other jobs a broker can't and won't do because he is not qualified.

Quite honestly, I really wonder sometimes.

/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[Chris_Robb]

I think my main worry was that was he following the proceedure laid down in the contract. Because if he is not - he could get landed with a boat at the wrong price, that he didn't want!

If the Broker was contracted to put the boat into surveyable order - and he didn't do it, that is for the seller to chase as the buyer has no legal relationship. I seem to remember the contract allows for costs if the vendor does not do certain things - for instance, failing to prepare the boat for survey.