Another new person on the verge of living aboard.

[small_trees]

Hi everyone,

My boyfriend and I have been looking at boats for an age and have decided to sod buying a flat and put our carefully saved deposit into a liveaboard.

I've read through the forum a lot and learned some really handy stuff but really the only boats I know anything about are narrowboats and even then I'm a bit shakey! Thing is, we've gone and fallen in love with a Princess 38 Flybridge and I'm at a loss as to weather we're being stupid.

It's a 1982 version and from what I can tell the guy who owns it has kept it in lovely nick and takes it out regularly (which we intend on doing, a LOT). Obv it's just an impression and a survey will tell us exactly what's what but he seemed to be a totally straight up sort of guy to my mind.

The real kicker is it's on a Central London residential mooring which obviously bumps the price up but it's the number one thing we need, both having jobs and such.

My two questions are, how does 79,950 sound for it? Baring in mind the value of the mooring, the very nice marina and all that good stuff. I've had a bit of a look at other boats like it and it would seem that we'd be paying around 20,000 for the mooring, or have I got that a bit arse about tit?

Secondly, I'd like to open out one of the cabins. How easy is it to take a wall down in a boat like that? I am a total motor boat idiot and tend to keep looking at everything as if it's a narrowboat!

I've always loved my flat but it seems so *static* since we started looking for boats!

Thanks in advance everyone.

 

[Sojourner47]

I don't know much about current Princess prices or London residential moorings, but am worried about your plan to "open up the cabin" by removing a "wall".
Bulkheads are there for structural reasons, and definately should not be removed!! Narrowboats are steel tubes, and can be chopped and changed a lot easier than GRP cruisers.....Seek prof advice before doing anything so drastic.

 

[Bajansailor]

Don't jump in too hastily - there are a lot of boats for sale out there.

It is definitely a 'no-no' to start chopping bulkheads out of a boat - they are usually there for a reason (eg strength, or to support the deck).

It would be worthwhile if you posted this question on the Motorboat Forum next door, as there are a lot of folk on there with experience of Princess (and every other type) of motor cruiser, and they can tell you about some of the pros and cons of owning a motor boat.

 

[PlanB]

Are you sure you're buying the marina berth included in that price? £20,000 for a berth doesn't sound much. Where are you intending to keep her?
If you check out the internet you'll see 38s offered for between £55K and £70K ish, obviously depending on age and condition.
How many rooms do you have in your flat? We live happily aboard a Princess 435 but the best advice we were given when we were setting out and looking at 38 footers was "buy a bigger boat or you'll murder each other". Think about how you use your space now and whether there is enough space on the 38. There's only one table and one heads, for example. Someone wants to watch TV, the other one has to go to bed to read etc etc. If you're pretty new to extended stays on board, there are more things that are different than you might think. Laundry, for example.
As Sojourner says, don't even think about structural alterations. Apart from the structural integrity, think about resale.
I'm sure the bloke selling it is a nice chap but the survey (and engine survey) and sea trial will really tell you what you need to know. It will also be a different experience from driving a narrowboat.
I'm not trying to put you off - we have a marvellous life. But your post suggests a little inexperience. Feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions I can help with.

 

[tobble]

as PVB says, you really need to find out exactly what you buying in terms of a berth. if it's in a marina I would guess that you wouldn't 'own' the berth, but you might have some sort of rights to it. It might just be that the owner's paid up the mooring fees for a year and you have no guaruntee of keeping the berth.

The residential bit is worth investigating a bit too - don't know about London but in Brizzle the council have got quite hot on liveaboards I think, and only permit a certain number in all the marinas etc, who are allocated/allocate resi berths, and everything is above board and you can't get away without your council tax.

can't comment on your boat choice, as not my bag at all but agree 100% with the 'NO' to 'knocking through'... certainly not without advice, you could give pricess a call but I'll bet they say the same. I would say before you get carried away with ideas about going out 'a LOT' find out how many gallons to the mile (sic) she does and compare that with the cost of diesel...

 

[vyv_cox]

But I believe that Central London marina berths are as rare as hens' teeth, so this must be a major consideration. I would investigate as advised by others before committing to it. Most of us who have marina berths in UK and some other countries pay an annual fee, not a lump sum. If it's genuine it could be worth buying the boat for, with the intention of selling before too long and buying something else.

As suggested already, ask on the mobo forum about the value of the boat. I am led to believe that prices have plummeted due to the massive increase in leisure boat diesel prices. This could just be hearsay though, so do some research.

 

[Tranona]

A 30 year old high speed power boat as a houseboat raises big question marks. These boats were designed as toys for rich people to wizz around and pose (although they are serious sea going boats if you want them to be). Typically up to 50% of their value is in the engines - which are almost redundant in a house boat - as well as taking up a significant proportion of the internal volume of the boat. I expect the engines are Volvos or Fords, but they will be well obsolete models and potentially a nightmare to keep running, particularly if they are not used much. Also the layouts as you have discovered are not designed for full time living but week ending.

For full time living in an urban environment you need to be looking at completely different kinds of boats such as Dutch barges, or narrow boats if you can cope with the narrow spaces. These major on living space and engines etc are almost an afterthought. They are, of course potentially more expensive, but the unsuitability of the boat you are looking at partly explains why it is so relatively "cheap".

 

[V1701]

Echo what others say about finding out about exactly what the yearly costs would be - do you want to throw £20k P.A. at mooring fees? You also mention wanting to take the boat out. Those big motor cruisers burn a LOT of fuel, not sure how much but you will be looking at fuel consumption of 50 litres an hour plus! These are huge expenses but don't let it put you off. As a comparison I live on a 30 foot yacht in Brighton Marina, cost a lot less than £80k and my berthing fees are £3k P.A., my engine burns about a litre and a quarter of fuel an hour, under sail it's free. Well wear and tear of course, sails and rigging have to be replaced eventually...

Think about canal boats, dutch barges, yachts as possibilities and think about how close to London you need/want to be. If you have careers/family/friends and are tied to London for that it still might be possible. If not you could think about somewhere cheaper. Others might be able to comment on mooring possibilities close to but not in London.

Good luck...

 

[AndrewB]

Bear in mind that your first purchase will inevitably be a mistake. Use it to learn what you really want in your second boat. That means, don't plunge every last cent into buying it and buy with an eye on reselling.

Good luck!

 

[Mino]

Just my humble opinion, but I'd take that £80k and spend it on a narrow boat. You could find a real gem for that price.

Don't forget that you simply MUST get adequate training from a RYA school before you think about setting out on the water, especially as a liveaboard. You said you know about narrowboats? I'm assuming you own one? If not, perhaps starting with one of these would be a more sensible option whilst you get used to living afloat. It's a much safer environment than the sea and there is still plenty to see, even in winter. A yacht like the one you suggested will continue to depreciate quite dramatically and is not designed to be lived aboard during the British winter: no hull insulation or doubled glazed windows. It's a summer runabout. I wouldn't choose to live on one. I believe barges hold their value well, so you could always sell it later when you've found a suitable seaworthy liveaboard.

And oh for God's sake don't go all DIY and go knocking down 'walls!' As Sojourner47 said, bulkheads are there for structural reasons.

If, however, you are set on living at sea, for want of better phraseology, then take a look at jimmy_bobby's liveaboard thread. It makes for excellent, informative reading. Also consider something like a Dutch steel motoryacht. Great liveaboards. £80k should get something decent if you're prepared to put the legwork in.

Good luck.

 

[Salty John]

Buy the flat. Or, if you're determined not to get a foot on the property ladder, buy a barge or narrowboat. Big, old boats are holes in the water into which you pour money. Particularly if you don't know anything about them.

 

[Clarky]

Salty John is right,boats are dreams,reality quickly sets in and dreams become nightmares,particulalry when you cannot do your own maintenance.
Buy a flat and a small boat,its a long winter..

 

[nathanlee]

Salty John is right,boats are dreams,reality quickly sets in and dreams become nightmares,particulalry when you cannot do your own maintenance.
Buy a flat and a small boat,its a long winter..

I'm going to counter this.

Buy a boat! Not a princess though. Look at a Dutch barge, they're pretty much like flats down below with loads of room, but all the benefits of living on the water. You will never want to go back to land again once you've found a good liveaboard community, I promise.

Just don't go for one of these plastic motorboats. It's just a bad idea from so many angles.

Now get on with it, you won't look back

 

[charles_reed]

Hi everyone,

My boyfriend and I have been looking at boats for an age and have decided to sod buying a flat and put our carefully saved deposit into a liveaboard.

I've read through the forum a lot and learned some really handy stuff but really the only boats I know anything about are narrowboats and even then I'm a bit shakey! Thing is, we've gone and fallen in love with a Princess 38 Flybridge and I'm at a loss as to weather we're being stupid.

It's a 1982 version and from what I can tell the guy who owns it has kept it in lovely nick and takes it out regularly (which we intend on doing, a LOT). Obv it's just an impression and a survey will tell us exactly what's what but he seemed to be a totally straight up sort of guy to my mind.

The real kicker is it's on a Central London residential mooring which obviously bumps the price up but it's the number one thing we need, both having jobs and such.

My two questions are, how does 79,950 sound for it? Baring in mind the value of the mooring, the very nice marina and all that good stuff. I've had a bit of a look at other boats like it and it would seem that we'd be paying around 20,000 for the mooring, or have I got that a bit arse about tit?

Secondly, I'd like to open out one of the cabins. How easy is it to take a wall down in a boat like that? I am a total motor boat idiot and tend to keep looking at everything as if it's a narrowboat!

I've always loved my flat but it seems so *static* since we started looking for boats!

Thanks in advance everyone.

Great idea, good position, totally wrong boat.

Don't give up, look for a more practical one to live in.

 

[pentagram]

I have a 60ft narrowboat for sale if interested