another idiot with mad ideas, new boat build

Well, a quality day. Five hours sat on a gsxr1000. To be greeted by some of the best roads In Britain.
Quality day out. And these chaps do know what they are doing.
Built boats for years, from the Windermere ferry to the local cockle boats and luxury yachts too.
Feel much happier.
 
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Robg71 said:
Well, a quality day. Five hours sat on a gsxr1000.
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Geez Rob, you deserve to get a perfect boat built for you just for that trip alone.
I wouldn't have withstood 5 hours on a bike even in the good old days, before I almost killed myself with one...
Glad to hear that you are happy with your choice, it will be a great build thread for sure, not to mention a great final result!
 
Spent the evening in the hotel bar discussing what we are fitting where and equipment levels, and spec.
I had a look round a boat they have just finished welding up, that will be a similar size to mine, bloody hell, it's a big step up from my 36footer.
Discussed some of the details for equipment during the initial build such as anchors, hydraulics etc.
We are also building things like stiffeners and doubler plates for stabilisers etc. even though they are not going to be fitted initially.
Back to the yard after my sausage and beans, and another five hours home then....
 
Just got back home.
Got a sore arse, six hundred miles on sports bike, and I'm not the spring chicken i used to be...
Anyway...
Yes, we are going down the hydraulic route. They have talked me in to it.

Had a good talk over and lots of notes to take to Holland. Hans is currently working on the new flybridge design with the new flush fit glue in style windows. Some great ideas come out.
Next time i go to Wales, we will be welding up steel.
Richard and Don have been building steel boats since they left school, and have boats all over the world, and have worked with some big industry name, (palmer johnson springs to mind) so i feel in capable hands.
 
Tenders

have you had any serious thoughts about tenders yet?? I can see this boat and you off on many an adventure and think a suitable tender may be a necessity for you.

a big decision now on the design of the mother ship will make storage and use as simple as can be.

think you need something for 2 divers ??? But need something you can drag / wheel up a beach when in remote places.

Xpro rib with aluminium hull may just do the job????
 
Yes.

We are sizing up, to see if we can make a tender garage, that does not look like a garage. You would hopefully not know its there in the Space the aft cabin would be. Failing that, or as well as, across the swim platform. (Not on drawings.) which would be hydraulic.
Last favoured is to store up on the fly bridge. Don't really want to consider that, but its an option nonetheless.

Would be nice to have a boat fast enough to waterski behind, but still manageable size. 10 or 12 foot i think should be ample.
 
good stuff Rob,

so a technical Q, is THIS going to be the built thread, or are you going to start one with a slightly more serious title? :p
Looking forward to the first weld, hope YOU are there doing it ;)

cheers

V.
 
vas said:
good stuff Rob,

so a technical Q, is THIS going to be the built thread, or are you going to start one with a slightly more serious title? :p
Looking forward to the first weld, hope YOU are there doing it ;)

cheers

V.
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what, and waste 25 pages of my inane random drivel.....
if it pleases you i can do another thread :)

I hope i do the firs weld. knowing my luck ill be back at work... think thats a safe bet actually... :(
 
nah, don't worry keep it all here ;)

btw, can you actually weld on thin air or you have to dip the lasercut sheets into the sea to do the weld there?

That would indeed be v.interesting and innovative (albeit slow and expensive process...)

:p

V.
 
Robg71 said:
my interpretation of that, was can we weld in a helium environment... Yes :)
just have an argon deluge same as with tig welding..
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yes, but I'm carp with that (I can make awful arc welding of 1+ inch tubes - will drill holes on anything smaller and thinner...) I didn't mean weld at massive depths and helium dodgy gas.

I was thinking more along the lines of dipping all the bits in a couple of metres of water and weld using swimming trunks, mask and snorkel kinda things :D
Would make some v.impressive photoshoot for sure!
And no cheating, doing the welding on low tide plz :p
 
haha, i see yes.. :)
jut dip the rods in candle wax... and check its not ac welding plant... tends to be a bit shocking if it is....

we do use wet stick welding occasionally. subject to hydrogen embrittlement, and rapid cooling not conducive to a quality weld, but its doable, and gives usable results.
 
Hey Rob, I'm very late to this thread, sorry. Was a bit distracted when you started it and now see that it has moved on from ideas to an actual build. Congratulations, and strap yourself in

You must do the first weld. Longstanding tradition on superyachts :-)

Anyway, I wanted to comment on generators. No matter how nice 3 phase is conceptually, you ought not do it on this build; you ought to install single phase gensets. Sure 3ph works technically better (subject only to being able to balance the single phase appliances like cooking and kettle across the phases, which you probably can do ok, but you'd need to study that). But the big issue is shorepower. On a boat this size you will invariably get only single phase 230v shorepower. Even on a 25m berth you only get 3ph 50% of the time in my experience, but on say an 18m berth it will always be single phase.

This is a one-way street problem: if you create a 3ph environment on your boat you can only use 3ph shorepower, not single phase. Whereas if you create a single phase environment on your boat you can connect to either single or 3 phase shorepower

Therefore if you create a 3ph world on your boat you'll be totally screwed when you come to the dock. You'll have to run your genset to power your nice 3ph airco motors and dive compressor, erk, and annoy your neighbours

Basically you have no choice in practice but to install a single phase genset and a single phase world on the boat, and spec 3 phase motors +VFDs for the big motor appliance like airco, compressor and the hydraulic pump motor (which is exactly how Match 1 and 2 are done, btw)

Also, as a separate matter, pay big attention to the exhaust and cooling water discharge from the gensets, to make them quiet. Poster ARE on here will be expert at this

Anyway, huge luck with the project. Keep posting
 
Many thanks JFM
I believe you were busy occupied else where so all forgiven :) she is a beauty

If I have to do the first weld, it may be a case of two bits of scrap together if the kit is not here in time, and incorporate it in the hull somewhere.
sure they will be upset with me if i say not to do anything till i get back from work. we'll have a workaround somewhere :)

I plan on doing a good chunk of the welding... hopefully

there is a nice big holiday home log cabin site 400 yards away from the yard, so i will check myself in there for the build.


Thanks for the update ref 3ph. thats exactly the sort of feedback i was looking for, and hope i can get more of from the forum, from the multitude of experts here.
so far we are looking at keep it simple stupid, so not trying to over complicate things, but also build in redundancy, remove opportunity for single point failure, or at least mitigate the decision if there is one.
Single phase it is :)

im hoping to keep the genset on the small size. and let the inverters take the start up current. Have not done a full electrical appraisal yet. still in the middle of getting spec sheets for equipment etc, but we are getting there.

i am definitely looking at victron inverters, and very very much swayed by Li Fe batteries.
the ability to charge to 100% from flat in an hour, and that can pull 80% of the amperage out of them without damage, is a huge bonus, and means can downsize on battery size. (But victron only make one size lithium anyway)

We are specifying Sleipner hydraulics and controls for the thrusters, bow and stern. Stern, mainly to help me if i am single handed. i think will be invaluable in that scenario.

Also, looking at bigger engines. TBC
Hans has re drafted the hull for twin screws, and has liberally added (hypothetical) weight. we think mainly as a CYA exercise (cover your arse)
50ft at 23ton displacement. which tbh, I'm fine with. I realise I'm not building a sports car.
what it does mean is to get 25knots will need approx 900 bhp. but we will be optimising the drive train for a 20 knot cruising speed.

we are starting to get the essentials of this project off the ground.
next stop Holland next week.
:D
 
Good stuff Rob. A few quick thoughts:

1. There is little size+weight difference in 1500rpm proper gensets between 9Kva and 17.5. In Onan (the best make bar none, in this size category) they are nearly identical size + weight. So fit the 17.5kva and be done with it, surely? Really nice unit that- I've had 2! Will be way cheaper than buying expensive Li battery technology that will be well out of date in 3 years

2. Sleipner hydraulics is top stuff - great choice. I know the CEO and owner very well, plus lots of their great team (several have been out on my boat). The company is owned and led by proper clever engineers, and the gear plus support is top rate. (MapisM may not agree and may recommend ABT thrusters so you'll have to weigh the evidence: he says Sleipner have a great future behind them but I'm confident those words will be food quite soon :) )

3. I'm assuming you've decided to leave stab fins as a retrofit item later, so no need to discuss now? Just perhaps provide the equipment and access spaces/ducts at this stage?

Enjoy Holland!
 
I would tend to agree normally with the gen set. but, until i know how much juice we actually need i wouldn't like to hazard a guess either way really. I wouldn't like to buy the larger one and find its only running at 40 %. At least the victron chargers will take any excess generator output and bang it back into the batteries. but will wait and see before any decision made on that.

I take it Mapism has put his money where his mouth is then :)

yes, fins we are making provision for, any doubler plates, or stiffeners to be installed now, or at least accessible space to be left available. so its part of the design process, just not been fitted. Would be foolish not to I think, even if it is only lip service.


I Always enjoy Holland :D
 
Just a quick question,
What's considered normal range for a boat this size....

I should have checked the charts at work, but a quick rough guess is probably about 420 to 450 miles from hull to haugasund, obviously Stavanger closer and the southern Norwegian coast, so we are looking at vessel range, for tankage calculations.
How much juice do you carry....
 
Robg71 said:
How much juice do you carry....
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4k litres, which give me a 1500nm safe range on my 53', but that's strictly at displacement speed.
Actually, I could push the range a tad above 2000nm at 7kts, if ite weren't that I hate seeing sailboats taking me over... :)
Though obviously some of them can be much faster than myself anyway.
 
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