Another fatality in Croatia

branko

branko

Well-Known Member
Joined
28 Mar 2004
Messages
376
Location
Croatia
Visit site
Last 3 days in Croatia wind Bura blows violently ( to 50 Kts ) . Austrian S.Y. with 5 members sent Mayday on Friday at 14 00. Croatian Coast guard find them after few hours but all of them do not want to abandon the ship. Coast guard did not tow the boat because of high waves ( they give also explanation that they are not able to tow any boat on Mayday call- they salvage persons! ) and they leave them. 3 persons - two men and lady try to catch Pula .As the night come and Bura continue to blowing with same force they decide to leave ship as Greek ferry stops after few hours on their Mayday call also. During throwing on ferry lady fell down in sea and disappear in waves. Yesterday small salvagging aircraft report that saw a floating body but till today boats did not find her.
The informations are still confused and we do not know exactly what was happened.
What to learn from that tragical story:
Do not send Mayday if lives are not imperilled. Leave the boat when people come to salvage you.
( Boat was in charter - insured !!! )

<hr width=100% size=1>skipp
 
<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

Leave the boat when people come to salvage you.

<hr></blockquote>

No

But within your argument, if I have no intention of leaving boat then I would not call Mayday. But your argument has failed, the woman left the boat and died, so I do not really understand what you are trying to say.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.topcatsail.co.uk>Woof</A>
 
I think he is trying to say that you should leave the boat if the professionals come to rescue you, in this case the Croatian coast guard. It is more likely that she would have made it safely into their boat, than a ferry some time later.

If I have interpreted this correctly, I would agree with branko. Whether its one's own or on charter, it is still only a boat.

<hr width=100% size=1>Sex is like sailing - its not the size of the boat, but the motion of the ocean which matters.
 
I think he's saying the crew called a Mayday - for "immediate assistance" - but then decide to try and tough it out rather than abandon ship. I think those objectives are mutually exclusive. If you want to tough it out - fine. But it's not a mayday. If you call a mayday you have to be prepared to accept the assistance offered on the terms of the offeror - not on your terms.





<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://aflcharters.co.uk>Dream Dancer</A>
 
This raises an interesting liability issue?

Vessel gets into trouble; skipper summons immediate assistance; assistance arrives but skipper wants to save his vessel and assistance denied on his terms (rightly in my view); crew later perishes; skipper liable for death of crew?

I wouldn't like to be arguing his case. Any other thoughts?

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://aflcharters.co.uk>Dream Dancer</A>
 
Difficult one. Crew told to board rescuing vessel, then skipper takes his own chances with his own vessel. I'd go for getting anyone on board who doesn't want to take that chance off, as I'd not want to be handling them whilst trying to save vessel.

Anyone who stays on board after good talking to is not liable to claim anything, I hate this liability stuff with a vengeance. People make their own decisions

<hr width=100% size=1>Me transmitte sursum, caledoni
 
That's scaring for sure. Do you know where the first mayday came from?
Since they were heading towards Pula in heavy sea with bura, I guess they were in Kvarner area.
Conditions shouldn't have been that bad if sailing along the istrian coast, at least with regard to wawes.

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
Branko, thank you for posting the news, and also that of the storm in August.

The Austrian skipper and his crew had a hard choice to make - leaving the ship during a bad storm will always be extremely dangerous, even with the Coast Guard on site. Some of the crew may be so frightened that they demand to abandon ship; some may simply feel that abandoning ship is the safest option; some may believe based on experience or education that the best hope of survival is to stay on board as long as the ship is not in danger of a lee shore. Fastnet '79 and other storms have taught that staying on board is very often the safest option.

If some of the crew wish to remain on board, then their wishes should be respected. Explaining to a terrified crew in the middle of a Force 9 or 10 that staying aboard is the safest thing to do would call for great skills of persuasion.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://homepage.eircom.net/~ajpower>http://homepage.eircom.net/~ajpower</A>
 
I'd like to echo Mapism: if they were off the west coast of Istria, it shouldn't have been that bad; I suspect they were in the Kvarner; it can get pretty rough there, with confused seas because the bora's funneled between the mainland and Cres. Branko? Any idea what boat it was? Presumably and AWB which would certainly have been mighty uncomfortable in that situation but unlikely to sink unless something snapped.

<hr width=100% size=1>Adriatic links here: <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html>http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html</A>
 
Exactly.
Last news: Boat is found near Ravenna in good condition( type still unknown). It was happened between Losinj and Pula in Kvarner. On TV info was that waves were almost 7 m and wind to 50 kts.
Ferry Lefka Ori salvagge crew few hours after Coast guard. Lady fell down from lifebelt when they lift her up to ferry deck.Crew from Lefka Ori try to find her for more than 1,5 hour but without results.
So, what I wish to discuss :
1. When they lanched Mayday they have to go on Coast guard boat all together ( as Bignick said - boat,in that situation, is only a money ) - is it correct?
2. If they do not want to leave boat they have to involve storm tactics and probably such disaster could not happened.

<hr width=100% size=1>skipp
 
My oppinion is that panic, night ...bad weather ( unexperienced charter guests?) and fear influence to wrong decision.
It was also in August. MOB and skipper jump to salvagge him and leave lady with children on board alone.
In both situations that people carry out storm tactics it would not happened.

<hr width=100% size=1>skipp
 
What about putting the rescuers at needless risk?

Everytime rescuers answer a Mayday call they put their lives at risk. These people should not have sent the call if they didn't intend to be rescued!!!

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
I'm not surprised to hear about 50 kts wind.
But 7m wawes, that's something I've never heard of in that area, particularly in summertime.
As far as I knew, such strong wind does not last long enough to develop such waves.
Steep, erratic waves, yes. But 7m high! Is that realistic, in your experience?
Anyway, in principle I agree that once someone decides to launch a mayday, saving the boat can not be a top priority anymore.
BTW, I don't know their initial position, but if the first mayday was launched at 14:00 and they were not able to reach Premantura before dark, I wonder if they wouldn't have been better off heading towards Unije or Losinj...
Sounds like they were challenging their luck somehow.
But of course, who am I to judge such situations by sitting confortably in front of a PC...?

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
I agree that 7m waves sounds rather a lot as there isn't that much fetch. More to the point, a strong 50kt bora was forecast at least 24 hours before (at least it was in Trieste and I see no reason why it shouldn't have been on the German-language Croatian forecast too). What were they doing out there? Presumably, trying to get their charter boat back to Pula in time. It's true that the weather changed very fast on Friday (at least in Trieste), with the wind and rain coming up in ten minutes or so, so it is probable they left in reasonable conditions, and then just weren't prepared to take the decision to turn back to Unije or Losinj when the conditions changed. I agree with other posters though: if they sent a mayday, then that's it, rien ne va plus, all into the rescue boat. Otherwise, don't send out a mayday. And as Branko says, if they had gone into storm tactic mode, they might have had to grit their teeth, but the boat is unlikely to have come to much harm. All written from the safety of my pc, of course. I wouldn't have liked to have been out there.

<hr width=100% size=1>Adriatic links here: <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html>http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html</A>
 
I agree with you that 7 m waves sounds too big. This data is official data from main TV news, so we must take it as it is. In Adriatic in literature the biggest wave is measured on Oil platform and was 11 m after few days of strong Jugo ( SSW).
Now my experience ( 40 years sailling ) tells that wind 40 to 50 Kts during 3 days on open sea can make really heavy sea and such data of 7 m is not too, too much far from truth.

<hr width=100% size=1>skipp
 
As a matter of curiosity Branko, how often would you expect to find dangerous storm conditions of this magnitude in this area? I agree with you regarding standard storm procedures by the way. Sounds like if they did nothing but go below and shut hatches they would all still be alive..... And if they had listened to the weather forecasts perhaps they would not have been there.......

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
I'll put my pennyworth's in before Branko (and am curious what he says). Weather of this severity (ie sustained 50kt winds): perhaps 3-5 times a year for a total of 6-20 days? Mostly in October to April but with the possibility of a 'hit' in the summer months too. What do you say, Branko?

<hr width=100% size=1>Adriatic links here: <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html>http://www.comoy.com/saillinks.html</A>
 
Not often! As I remember in past it was very rarely that we have such strong Bura in August and September. Bura is strong in winter period same as Jugo - South wind. In August ( usually after 15th) summer gales announce Autumn, but in Croatia exist every 5 miles Marina or shelter and if you are not stupidly courageous person you will spend such bad weather period in sitting position with cold beer in your hand.

<hr width=100% size=1>skipp
 
Encouraging reply Branko. I will set off from England next year through the French canals and intend to overwinter in the Southern Ionian before coming to see your beautiful country in 2006. Lets hope "Global Warming" has not changed the climate too much by then! It's always worrying to hear incidences of untypical weather these days and it sounds as if this storm was another such example.

<hr width=100% size=1>
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top