Another blue ensign thread!

geoffatstanpit

geoffatstanpit

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Not wishing to further sadden the "how sad is this" thread, I am starting another one which will surely get sadder as time goes on.

I have to admit that I do sometimes sail a boat flying a blue ensign defaced with a large yellow anchor. The boats concerned (a fleet of 4 FoxTerriers) I think belong to the Royal Navy (HMS Sultan keep the keys) and live at HMS Hornet (Gosport) under the wing of the Joint Services Adventurous Sailing Club or somesuch. They are rented out to the Air Training Corps, which I think is loosely part of the RAF, for their Summer Camp at Browndown Army Camp. I get co-opted as a sort of civilian instructor.

So there is a substantial service connection but none of it directly applies to me. The ensign comes with the boat and is the only one supplied. If I bring my own red ensign to avoid being accused of sailing under false colours, would that be construed as attempted theft of a ship of the Royal Navy?


What should we do?
 
[ QUOTE ]
....would that be construed as attempted theft ....

[/ QUOTE ]

Not only that, someone might think you were trying to pinch it!
 
Everything I say here must be prefaced with 'As I understand it'.

It depends, in this instance, on who is skipper. If you are skipper and not a member of the organisation owning the yacht, then you should not wear the blue ensign - unless you are entitled to one yourself and the yacht is British registered etc...

I, for example, cannot borrow a boat from a mate who is a member of the RCC and wear his blue. However, I could hoist the RTYC burgee and wear the club's defaced blue ensign (for which I have a warrant).

You and I can always, at all times, wear the red ensign so, if you want to be certain you are correct, I would suggest you take and wear one of those.

(Please note the sad but correct use of the word wear rather than fly)
 
Well I was abused by a vessel flying an RNSA burgee for being part of the Australian Navy. It might have had something to do with his embaraassement at the fact that he was anchoring under power in a busy channel.
 
An Admiralty Warrant is issued through a CLUB to an INDIVIDUAL MEMBER to wear a privileged ensign on a specific BOAT.

If you can't tick all three boxes you are technically liable to a fine by HM Customs - £500 I recall.

But having sailed out of JSSC for years I suggest that you're very nlikely to be boarded as the MOD looks after its own.

Do remember to hoist the burgee too - a blue flag on its own might just catch the eye of a Forum Lawyer!
 
As an ex-member of the Forces and current of the RAFYC, I believe that I have the right to wear a Bluey or the RAFYC defaced ensign, but I always fly a red one. I have almost every possible qualification to sail boats small and large, and lots of experience, and I could not be more proud than to fly a Red Ensign. Some of the worst seamanship I have ever seen has been performed under a Bluey, along with some very bad manners. Keep it Red.
 
Not quite , The Royal Air Force Yacht Club has the privilege of flying the Blue Ensign of Her Majesty's fleet defaced with the Royal Crown and RAF Eagle and allows club members to fly the Royal Air Force roundel on their burgee.
 
When I sailed in the Royal Air Force JS boats we used to fly the RAF Ensign in UK waters but changed to the red ensign when foreign to save any diplomatic confusion. We did get a special dispensation to fly the light blue in USA for the parade of sail in 1985 (I think)
Stan
 
According to the RAFYC and taken from their site
Founded by officers of Royal Air Force at Calshot in 1932, the Club has enjoyed a close relationship with the Service ever since. This relationship gives the Royal Air Force Yacht Club the privilege of flying the Blue Ensign of Her Majesty's fleet defaced with the Royal Crown and RAF Eagle and allows club members to fly the Royal Air Force roundel on their burgee.

So I'm just quoting what they say
 
If you do continue to sail under the blue ensign for God's sake make sure your seamanship is exemplary otherwise we'll get burdened with yet more dreary posts along the lines of "Some of the worst seamanship I have ever seen has been performed under a Bluey, along with some very bad manners. "

On second thoughts, don't make it too exemplary because that annoys the chippies even more! /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
 
Why ever should the blue ensign confer an extra ship handling capability. There are more people in the RN who are not seamen (i.e. supply, engineers, doctors etc) not that this means that they may be in any way less capable than the seaman - primarily cause they get more shore time to indulge their small boat handling.

Furthermore, quite a lot of the blue ensign /bad handling appear to be from boats that are not RNSA, but one of the old yacht clubs that have the warrant to be able to issue blue ensigns to members.

In any case, there are just as many examples of poor handling in boats under the red ensign as there are under red, so why should it matter


Unless this is some form of reverse snobbery



. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
I belong to two sailing clubs (one of which is a London based club). From that one, I have a warrant to wear a blue ensign. If I'm on a rally with that club I wear the blue ensign (with the appropriate burgee) to denote association with / belonging to that club. When I'm sailing with boats from the other club (more frequently) I wear a red ensign and the appropriate burgee for the same reasons.

This isn't about snobbery surely - it's about telling people which sailing club you belong to...?

Simon
 
It is fairly easy to obtain a Blue Ensign if you really want one i.e. Cruising Club etc.

But what totally mystifies me and many others is why would anyone wish to fly one ?

Flying a burgee denoting your club is fine but surely are we not all sailors together in this country ?

Cannot we all be united under the same flag ?

The Blue Ensign in historical terms means next to nothing . It is surely just a remnant of the class system that we can well do without. Many of our European brothers think of it as a huge joke. Why should the majority of us suffer this embarrassment ?

The Red Ensign means everything . Particularly in the last war where many of us lost family in the convoys with ships going down wearing the Red Ensign. Surely this must mean something to the Blue Ensign flyers ? Why put yourself up for unnecessary ridicule for an outdated load of nonsense ?

I hear words such as 'jealousy' from Searush for example. What exactly does he mean. Talbot seems to be defending the Blue on a number of occasions but still cannot come up with a reason as to why he flies it. Who and what are they representing ? What is so important to alienate themselves from the majority who wish to have a united modern Britain ?
 
The blue ensign has a history as long and as complex as the red. Perfectly OK to fly one if you are entitled to one, and as to being a joke, just explain to people its origins, if you understand them well enough. It's nothing to do with class at all.
 
Ditto to that.

But on the other hand, I've just chopped my leg off with a chainsaw, and I'm now bleeding to death, happy in the knowledge as my conciousness dims that I shall never have to read another thread about ensigns.....

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif
 
Easy to get a defaced blue ensign. Not so easy to get one that is not defaced.

I have close family members who have served under white and red ensign during wars and am well aware of the sacrifice made by many under both ensigns especially during WW2 (my father took part in several russian convoys on a fleet escort tanker)

I wear my blue ensign with pride for the 30+ years of service in the RN -several in harms way!, and people I served with did not survive. I am proud to have done my bit to enable you to disagree with me. I plan to continue to wear a blue ensign,
although in the future I will be more concerned with this

20519.jpg
 
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