angle of heel

[Guest]

New to sailing - enthusiastic - however a touch concerned when heeling - all fully explained but require extra reassurance (sailing partner a touch bossy and loses temper)- just how far is safe - currently sailing 29ft fin keeled sloop.

 

[Guest]

Rail under is still not dangerous - sailing partner sounds more risky!

 

[Guest]

Don\'t worry

Generaly the boat will broach before it gets into real trouble, ie it rounds up into the wind when overpressed. Not a problem unless you are sailing near somthing hard like another boat.

Best to reef them early they loose no speed and are much easier to handle.

 

[Guest]

When your boat heels, the wind pressure on the rig reduces as (within reason), the sail surface exposed to the wind is decreasing. At the same time the keel is exerting an increasing & counter-balancing leverage the more it has tilted upwards. This must be qualified as, in a seaway, the sails will be pressed back against the wind on a return roll. Presumably though the sails have been reefed in proportion to the wind as it pipes up and all should be sweet harmony!

 

[Guest]

Most well-designed yachts will recover from a 90 degree heel. My "Fare Well" went over to about 120 degrees in a hurricane off Bermuda, and she came up OK, and we did not lose a mast. So heeling is n't a problem, especially given the lucid explanations of previous responders.

The main problem when heeling is falling out of the boat, and this is why safety harnesses and life-lines are so important in rough weather.

We'll have to deal with that guy's bossiness etc. I've been sailing with the same woman for 60 years and I think she managed to tame me. It is possible, it really is. Whenever I used to get a bit the old sailor with her, she would reply "yes Doris". You can only put up with a certain amount of this and she was too good a crew (and sea-cook) to risk losing her.

 

[Guest]

A lot of boats will actually lose streerage as the rudder loses surface area IN the water, and the boat will generally round up. This assums that your boat carries a little weather helm. IF NOT then sort it out ! Toe-rail under is common to the sporty-types and is OK. But generally as the toe-rail nears water-line then it is better to ease off .... most sail-boats sail better and do NOT lose speed when sailed a little more upright. A little hydronautics here ..... the hull has a definite symmetry when upright. Heel the boat and the symmetry is upset and the greater surface is shown to the lee-side ... causing lift, actually it is a lessening of pressure, as in an aircraft wing. So heeling actually aids leeway and can rob you of the increased speed in total. So the trick is to balance how much you allow the boat to heel and the course you want to make.

So heel by all means, but on a cruising boat - is it necessary to get wet ? and uncomfortable ???? Moderation and you will get there just as quick and a darn sight less 'frayed' by the old bossy boots !!!!

 

[Guest]

20 degrees

If you have an inclinometer or a compass with a tilt scale on it.

Nigel is right. Whilst designs vary (some achieve a useful increase in waterline length up to a certain angle), you can sfely show bossy boots a quicker way to sail by keeping her below about 20 deg.

Beyond that angle the effort is driving the boat over and sideways rather than forwards, so other yachts start to overtake you. Reef to keep the angle reasonable and the helm light. Also get the sails flatter as the wind gets up. Tighten the halyards to pull the 'draught' of the sail forward. Use the kicker and the traveller on the main, and the sheet leads on the foresail sheets to keep an efficient shape.

Footnote... how are the sails? If they are a few years old, they may be baggy and tend to heel the boat rather than drive forward.

 

[Guest]

concern about heeling is a common problem, particularly amongst wives / girlfriends for some reason. my wife was very frightened, and no amount of careful technical explanations and re-assurances made any difference. i finally realised that , if i wanted to continue to sail together, i had to dosomething more effective. we bought a catamaran. best thing we ever did. my wife sails with a smile on her face, the boat is much more comfortable at sea, fast, lots of space, and i have never once had to pay more than a single marina charge all along the south coast. try it - you'll see. the answer to your question is that there is no fixed limit. the force heeling the boat gets less the greater the angle of heel, and the force trying to push her upright gets greater as the angle increases. at some point the two become equal and she heels no further. there is an angle of heel at which she starts to turn turtle, but that will be well past the point where the mast is horizontal.dont worry about it. in reality, you are in much greater danger from fire or collision

 

[Guest]

I think I go down in history as the woman who loves it when the boat is heeled - only person I know who capsized a Topper because I was so well heeled and had so much sun cream on my 'derriere' that I slipped under the sail and over the side!! Good job the main wasn't cleated off! However, in a cruiser it is a little different - I still love it, but appreciate Nigel and Andy's comments above - if you heel too far you simply make leeway i.e. go sideways. This is counter productive as it stops you making the fastest course over the ground. Convince your man of this, and you will have a much more comfortable ride.

Enjoy the sailing.

Cynth

 

[Guest]

Heel up to 20 odd degrees is perfectly normal and to be expected even under lightish conditions, as the boat responds to puffs of wind.

Consistently heeled to plus 20 degrees poses the question, why? Answer - almost always too much sail up or the sails sheeted in too tight - and the consequences as expertly outlined by contributors above.

The answer is that the boat tells you when it's time to free the sails, or take a reduction in sail area. Ultimately, the consruction of the rig will drive the boat into a broach and you will loose control, the boat will lay over and not round up to wind as it is designed to do; you can also get catapulted out of the cockpit at this stage. The tiller also speaks to you, as it rises out of the water and the tiller "goes light" on you - ie loses its grip. Another reason not to over press the boat.

Armed with these comments and the expertise from others above, you could suggest to your sailing mate that there is a balance between excessive caution and recklessness? Otherwise I expect to see a transfer request on this BB which I'm sure some gallant sailor will take up....

Peter Gibbs

 

[Guest]

Re: angle of heel ON CATS ...

What he DOESN'T tell you is - cats don't heel - they turn upside down instead. Stick with the brute & his mono-hull - at least you'll come upright again.

 

[Guest]

I your sailing to windward with your lee rail constantly under then you're probably overpressed. Put a reef in under those coditions and you'll probably sail faster and make less leeway. I always reckon on 20 degrees being the maximum angle of heel that is acceptable.

 

[Guest]

Re: angle of heel ON CATS ...

quiet so Ron Lazerus has lost the plot ...AGAIN .. the lady wants to know about heeling and he talks cats!!!

my twopenn'orth on this is 10 to 15 degrees heel, over that REEF. Faster and more comfortable.

 

[Guest]

Very strange !! broaching has been mentioned twice in this thread.......Broaching is broaching! heeling is heeling!..and on my boat never the twain do meet!

running downwind (broach conditions) I dont heel,and I get rid of the main altogether to reduce the chance of broaching.

beating or reaching ( across or upwind Caroline)(heel conditions) I start to reef the main at 15 degrees of heel and If I do get over pressed (heeled too far), she comes upright as the boat automatically turns up into the wind! and so does every other yacht that has "weather helm"!

and be a little carefull of the advice given on here Caroline, most is excellent, But two of the replies I suspect of being NON-sailers

 

[Guest]

I agree with everything in the other comments. Did you sail dinghies before this boat? Everyone who is used to dingies is scared of heeling to some extent. I was. It was really wierd to have the boat heel and know there's nothing (almost) that you can do about it just by moving your weight. Why not go out in flat water but plenty of wind (a weather shore somewhere) and sheet in hard then sail on a beam reach. I think you'll soon get to find out what happens when the boat is overpressed and you won't be any the worse for it!

One point, breaking waves are bad news. I agree with everyone who says a decent boat will turn into the wind and stop (the right way up!) when overpressed but this may not be true with a breaking sea on the beam. Best avoid those!

Re. Partner; My wife tells me I get bossier when I'm nervous!

 

[Guest]

SO - what, in your book ...

... is a broach? I always thought it was leeward forces overcoming steering forces which results in - rounding up = a broach.