Anderson 22 V Jaguar 21

[Gin]

Good threads never die...



Is that fair comment, Andy? Considering it was made nearly ten years back, even replaced standing rigging might be due for renewal by now...and does somebody still regularly make sails for the A22, often enough to be familiar with the job?

Most of all - just how dry - or not dry, are A22 hulls (which awoke Gin's doubts a decade ago), likely to be in 2018?

After my searches years ago for a good A22, I upped my budget and bought a Sadler26- great boat but after a series of shoulder ops it had to go. I was very lucky in 2015 to find a superb example of an A22 with a preventive gel shield protected hull, good rigging and a variety of sails all looking nearly new, as they still are for I have had only modest use as now my knees have given up the struggle and this boat too must go- a very sad decision and a short lived partnership.

A previous owner had equipped the boat with a custom adapted galvanised twin axle braked trailer with a Roro launching trolley thus avoiding the need for the road wheels to be immersed in water. This outfit plus the superb woodwork/joinery in the interior made this a special tough, go anywhere boat, I shall miss it a lot- definitely one of a kind and a joy to own and sail; this marque still gets my vote

 

[MOBY2]

Having sailed with Andy I can confirm the Anderson is a joy to sail and whilst I think the world of my Trident for some off its other qualities but for pure fun sailing the Anderson hands down.

 

[wombat88]

Last year, while looking for a Hunter Medina I came across a Jaguar 21 from 1989 that had spent 15 years in a barn. It was just around the corner.

Couldn't resist it. My ambitions do not extend beyond the Solent and I am still a dinghy sailor so it suits well. Interior obviously compromised by the lifting keel but otherwise very tidy with double moulding throughout etc. Light, well sorted, simple and seemingly quite quick, points well, sits flat and cheap as chips.

Happy so far!

 

[Greenheart]

Thanks for these responses gentlemen...I might have guessed this old thread would come alive again while I slept.

I'm in exactly the position you were, Wombat. Keen dinghyist, tired of the limitations, but keen to retain dinghy-benefits in a yacht.

At the same time, I don't dismiss the appeal of bigger stuff like cheap old Centaurs, despite the complication of old diesels.

I've largely ignored the A22 because the keel seems not to retract fully enough to allow safe all-location drying out.

But in fact I suppose having a foot or more of keel sticking out underneath, actually protects the surrounding hull from hard lumps in the vicinity, if some further defence were rigged (a couple of fat motor-tyres, tied to support the rear quarters?)

Not so sure what one would do with two huge muddy weedy tyres, while out cruising in a compact yacht. :dejection:

I'm now close enough to buying-point, I can almost smell the petrol-can and damp cockpit lockers. I'm mainly held back by lack of a perfect boat at perfect price, locally...but given that I'm in the vicinity of the Solent, how long can it take?

And where's Seajet when someone is expressing interest in the A22?? (Not that I'd ever be led by his recommendations. )

 

[alant]

Thanks for these responses gentlemen...I might have guessed this old thread would come alive again while I slept.

I'm in exactly the position you were, Wombat. Keen dinghyist, tired of the limitations, but keen to retain dinghy-benefits in a yacht.

At the same time, I don't dismiss the appeal of bigger stuff like cheap old Centaurs, despite the complication of old diesels.

I've largely ignored the A22 because the keel seems not to retract fully enough to allow safe all-location drying out.

But in fact I suppose having a foot or more of keel sticking out underneath, actually protects the surrounding hull from hard lumps in the vicinity, if some further defence were rigged (a couple of fat motor-tyres, tied to support the rear quarters?)

Not so sure what one would do with two huge muddy weedy tyres, while out cruising in a compact yacht. :dejection:

I'm now close enough to buying-point, I can almost smell the petrol-can and damp cockpit lockers. I'm mainly held back by lack of a perfect boat at perfect price, locally...but given that I'm in the vicinity of the Solent, how long can it take?

And where's Seajet when someone is expressing interest in the A22?? (Not that I'd ever be led by his recommendations. )

Seem to be a good few for sale.

 

[Seajet]

Dan,

it's pretty much all covered above; the Jag 21 is fine for lighter weathers but the A22 for looking after one in serious stuff - or going further on hols.

Never heard of any snag with water absorption in hulls.

I have dried on hard sand, she heels at 20 degrees but I think this unfair on any boat for a permanent mooring due to pounding in waves; in soft mud she's almost always dead upright unlike the twin keelers.

What IS critical with all lift keel boats is a check of the keel plate in lowered condition - I and a lot of A22's ( and a jag 21 I know ) use trestles for winter storage which allow maintenance on the keel.

For this reason I'd be wary of any boat kept wintered on trailers.

The A22 has a seperate loo and 4 good size bunks, not sure about the Jag.

On my club moorings a Jag 21 was found laying on her side, masthead in the water, after windy weather - seems the trick is to add extra internal ballast - the boat was found by a passing gig team and went back upright with a twang when they lifted the mast end, but it did raise eyebrows.

One thing to watch is some people fit silly heavy engines which have to be left in the well, defeating the purpose - a well maintained Mariner 5 hp 2 stroke with remote tank and charging coil is ideal.

As you know you're always welcome for a spin on mine, as is anyone else interested - I know another local example - should be good - coming on the market soon.

Due to a dispute I do not have control of the website in my signature, which I pay for and supply the info - a new website is on the way
ASAP, in the meantime please PM me here or Dan you know my e-mail.

Andy

 

[wombat88]

Dan,


On my club moorings a Jag 21 was found laying on her side, masthead in the water, after windy weather - seems the trick is to add extra internal ballast - the boat was found by a passing gig team and went back upright with a twang when they lifted the mast end, but it did raise eyebrows.


Andy

I wonder if it had been left keel up or down.

 

[Seajet]

Keel up, I thought that was the point of lift keels on drying moorings ?!

The late Bob Salmon sailed ' Anderson Affair ' most of the way to Antigua with the keel up, a braver man than me but the A22 does seem to be self righting with it up - I've been sat on the mooring keel up in some horrendous gusts, she just heeled a bit.

Bob Salmon's article is on the ' Articles ' section of the website below, a lot of info is still there.

 

[wombat88]

Ah yes, that makes sense. I had images of the thing being blown over when afloat!

Later J21s have the extra ballast cast to fit into mouldings in the bottom of lockers adjacent to the keel.

When at anchor in stronger winds lowering the keel reduces veering etc. which is hardly surprising.

 

[Seajet]

Wombat,

the Jag 21 I mentioned WAS blown over when afloat; nobody was sure quite when, but obviously there was nobody aboard or around to see, there had been a period of windy weather - then a day / days later when it was calm, the local rowing gig club were rather surprised to come across the boat floating on her side with the masthead in the water.

A quick heave on the masthead and the boat sprang up none the worse for wear, but it wasn't a great advert; then it was discovered a lot of the boats have learned to fit extra internal ballast.

I am not having a go at Jag' 21's but thought the incident worth mentioning, not least as a warning to Jag 21 owners and potential buyers.

Surely if you're leaving the boat on a drying mooring you pull the keel right up ? I forget the arrangement on the Jag, but if it's fully retractable the keel will be pushed up as the boat settles.

Even if one has left some slack to let the keel drop a bit again, this isn't 100% reliable as mud and / or stones may well jam it up - and it's also putting a side load on the keel casing and gear when the boat settles swinging in a strong cross wind, which happens often.

I guess I'm just old fashioned about cruisers trying to stay mast upwards...

 

[wombat88]

I only use a drying mooring as an occasional visitor in the summer months, otherwise the boat lives afloat. My need for a lifting keel is based on a penchant for beaching and creek crawling rather than moorings.

The Jag's keel goes right up into the hull leaving an almost flat section at the bottom of the hull that runs from bow right through to stern, widening as it goes. It would indeed be asking for trouble to leave the keel unlocked and capable of sliding part way up or down. With it up the boat draws very little and the only danger when running aground at East Head is the possibility that one might hit a passing Labrador.

It is alleged that this flat section will help the thing plane though I am yet to try. This is not a boat I would choose for 'serious' heavy weather sailing but for estuarine pass times and the occasional nip across the Solent it will do just fine.

Hence the 'big dinghy' description.

 

[Simon__]

Would an Anderson 22 be appropriate for the Irish Sea / North Wales / IOM? And are there any video tours or good photos of the interior - hoping to bring my gf along so separate toilet (as mentioned in the thread) and decent accommodation would be preferred.

 

[Seajet]

Simon_,

in a word, yes.

There are quite a few Andersons in Ireland, also in Scotland, around the English coasts, 2 in Norway, 1 in Ukraine, 1 in Czechoslovakia, 2 in France, 1 on Lake Como, 1 in Cyprus and 1 in Vietnam ( though that one was shipped out ! ) and a few others scattered around I've probably forgotten right now.

Three have raced across the Atlantic.

There are reasonable photo's in the ' buyer's guide ' on the website in my signature below, or if you PM me your e-mail I'll happily send pics of my boat ( which is NOT for sale ).

No video tour yet I'm afraid - I'm working on a new website though.

It doesn't sound like you are near Chichester Harbour or you'd be welcome to come for a look around, but as I say I can send photo's.

Andy

 

[banger]

Just out of interest had a look at the site, all the adverts are positively ancient, does that mean that they are sold and the ads left on, or is it that they aren't selling?

 

[Seajet]

banger,

as I touched on a while ago, the person who built the website - which I pay and provide info for - has thrown a wobbly and locked me out, so I cannot update it; I'm building a new site but it takes time.

The boats on the site have sold except Chancer in Ireland and Pipperoo in Southampton.

So for info please ask me on here, not via the site.

Andy