marinecon
New Member
Hi All this is my first post on here just looking for opinions on the Anderson 22 and the Jaguar 21, both of these are lifting keel versions any advise would be great. con.
Anderson 22 V Jaguar 21
- Thread starter marinecon
- Start date
seumask
Well-Known Member
Do a search on here and you'll find quite a lot about the Anderson 22, and possibly some about the jaguar 21. General opinon is the Anderson 22 is a tough capable sea boat, however it does not dry out upright on harder surfaces, unless you have fitted legs. On the other hand the Jag is more modern in concept but lighter weight in the seaworthy sense but probably has more room down below.
Judders
Well-Known Member
I've never sailed either but the time was when I was looking around for something of that sort of spec. The Anderson came out on top on just about every criteria, however you got to pay for it just the same.
I subsequently looked at newer and slightly larger jags and was appalled by the attention to detail in the design as well as the build quality.
I subsequently looked at newer and slightly larger jags and was appalled by the attention to detail in the design as well as the build quality.
graham
Well-Known Member
I had an Anderson22 for 9 years and think they are great boats.They sail well are well balanced and can cope with pretty severe weather for a small boat.
there isnt a huge amount of room below but there are 4 full size berths with sitting headroom a toilet and a galley area .
The keel is a 900 lb cast iron weight attatched to a steel plate raised with a trailer type winch.The weight stays outside the hull when the keel is raised. This protects the hull from stones etc but does mean you need short drying legs to stay upright unless in soft mud.
Links here to Anderson Yahoo group A22 group
Anderson Owners Association
A22Association
And a blog I kept about our A22 Vega. vega an A22
there isnt a huge amount of room below but there are 4 full size berths with sitting headroom a toilet and a galley area .
The keel is a 900 lb cast iron weight attatched to a steel plate raised with a trailer type winch.The weight stays outside the hull when the keel is raised. This protects the hull from stones etc but does mean you need short drying legs to stay upright unless in soft mud.
Links here to Anderson Yahoo group A22 group
Anderson Owners Association
A22Association
And a blog I kept about our A22 Vega. vega an A22
PatrickB02
Well-Known Member
Can I also suggest that you look at the Beneteau First 210/211/217. Similar size and concept (lift keel) but more modern and (I am fairly sure) quicker under sail than either the Anderson or Jaguar.
More info (including polar graphs) here...http://first210.org/
Yes, I have got one /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
More info (including polar graphs) here...http://first210.org/
Yes, I have got one /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Judders
Well-Known Member
Are the Benny's not twice the money? I looked at two of the small Bennys before I bought Feeling Rough. There is a lot to be said for them but there is not a lot of boat for the money (you could buy yourself 5 jags!) and many of them have been heavilly raced.
Gin
Well-Known Member
Ceirwan
Well-Known Member
Well it depends what you want...! I've owned a J21 and had the keel dangling by the lifting stop under the boat so its important to have a good look (or luck? lol) at the lifting mechanism!
I'd say for inland sailing and creek crawling J21 without i doubt, and properly sailed, dare i say it, especially in lighter airs its probably a tad faster than the Anderson. In heave weather though, the A22 all the way.
I'd say for inland sailing and creek crawling J21 without i doubt, and properly sailed, dare i say it, especially in lighter airs its probably a tad faster than the Anderson. In heave weather though, the A22 all the way.
Gin
Well-Known Member
My point exactly- A22 proper seagoing boat, fast and tough.
How many J21's have crossed the Atlantic?
The main caveat, however, is the condition- since they are now so cheap, usually the standing rigging and the sails are vintage and much more importantly you will struggle to find a dry hull
How many J21's have crossed the Atlantic?
The main caveat, however, is the condition- since they are now so cheap, usually the standing rigging and the sails are vintage and much more importantly you will struggle to find a dry hull
cid
Well-Known Member
forget them both and go for the hunter delta. Good room down below,Good ability togo forward to bow insafety unlike A22, good secure cokpit area, handles well,good arrangement for o/b in and out of use.It dries out upright as the keel comes straight into boat. It would be well worth the extra cash.I had one for 16yrs,now sail kelt with swing keel.
graham
Well-Known Member
I have allways liked the look of a Hunter Delta Strong Fast and more room than either the J21 OR A 22.
Not sure if a fully retracting keel is such a good idea for drying out though. Firstly I would worry about drying out on a small rock or something that could do damage to the hull,secondly with this configuration mud .pebbles etc can be forced up into the keel slot.
Al;so not really a fair comparison as the Delta would be about double the price.
Not sure if a fully retracting keel is such a good idea for drying out though. Firstly I would worry about drying out on a small rock or something that could do damage to the hull,secondly with this configuration mud .pebbles etc can be forced up into the keel slot.
Al;so not really a fair comparison as the Delta would be about double the price.
Mavis
Well-Known Member
I do not know about the Jaguar. But having just moved on to a Sadler after having an Anderson for the last 5 years (still got it and for sale) I can honestly say that they are absolutely fantastic. They sail like a large dinghy, but are as seaworthy a boat as you can imagine. I have never ever doubted that she would bring me home, and have on many occasions put to shame much larger yachts as I have overtaken them.
Seajet
...
The Delta, price aside, is a very lightly built, bouncy semi-racer, I very much doubt it would look after you like an Anderson.
Going forward on the A22 looks dodgy, but in fact is easy once used to it, and if it's really heavy weather one can go forward with one's feet on the vestigial side deck and backside on coachroof, legs secure inside the guardrails.
The previous poster who was dubious about fully retracting keels was spot-on,at my soft mud drying moorings such flush retracting keels usually have problems with stones jamming in the casing, and one such boat was sunk after she settled on her mooring sinker.
The Anderson's ballast bulb is veed on top to fair in with the hull, which keeps debris out, and she settles dead upright in mud, more level than the twin keelers.
I wouldn't regularly dry out any boat on a hard surface...
I have sailed in company with a Jaguar 21. I think they're a good looking, fun weekender, but wouldn't fancy being caught out on one in heavy weather...
In a F2-3 broad reach ( No.1 Genoa & full main only ) I was able to keep up with but not overtake the J21, in stronger winds I'd think it easy meat.
I should declare an interest at this point, I run the Anderson Owners Association !
www.anderson22class.co.uk
I've had other boats such as a fin Carter 30 cruiser/racer, which I sold to buy my Anderson back !
I've had my A22 since 1978 - with a 3 year break - and have never come across any design to rival her; seaworthy, fast, strongly built, outboard in secure well ( stowed and a flush plug fitted for any decent trip ), separate loo...
I did get together with the ex-M.D. of Andersons with view to building new boats, but as he is comfortably retired it looked like being too much for us.
Incidentally he is seeking someone to take on the moulds, space is becoming an issue; a good home is more important than money.
Going forward on the A22 looks dodgy, but in fact is easy once used to it, and if it's really heavy weather one can go forward with one's feet on the vestigial side deck and backside on coachroof, legs secure inside the guardrails.
The previous poster who was dubious about fully retracting keels was spot-on,at my soft mud drying moorings such flush retracting keels usually have problems with stones jamming in the casing, and one such boat was sunk after she settled on her mooring sinker.
The Anderson's ballast bulb is veed on top to fair in with the hull, which keeps debris out, and she settles dead upright in mud, more level than the twin keelers.
I wouldn't regularly dry out any boat on a hard surface...
I have sailed in company with a Jaguar 21. I think they're a good looking, fun weekender, but wouldn't fancy being caught out on one in heavy weather...
In a F2-3 broad reach ( No.1 Genoa & full main only ) I was able to keep up with but not overtake the J21, in stronger winds I'd think it easy meat.
I should declare an interest at this point, I run the Anderson Owners Association !
www.anderson22class.co.uk
I've had other boats such as a fin Carter 30 cruiser/racer, which I sold to buy my Anderson back !
I've had my A22 since 1978 - with a 3 year break - and have never come across any design to rival her; seaworthy, fast, strongly built, outboard in secure well ( stowed and a flush plug fitted for any decent trip ), separate loo...
I did get together with the ex-M.D. of Andersons with view to building new boats, but as he is comfortably retired it looked like being too much for us.
Incidentally he is seeking someone to take on the moulds, space is becoming an issue; a good home is more important than money.
Last edited:
ianc1200
Well-Known Member
Andy, you could have said there's a brand new part completed A22 you've got, could be a superb buy for somebody looking to finish off & fit out themselves.
I've also got an A22, I'm really a motorboater trying to learn sailing, but the feeling of total security when the wind gets to 31mph (this is the max I've been caught out in) you never have any doubt about the ability of the boat to get you home.
IanC
I've also got an A22, I'm really a motorboater trying to learn sailing, but the feeling of total security when the wind gets to 31mph (this is the max I've been caught out in) you never have any doubt about the ability of the boat to get you home.
IanC
Seajet
...
Ian,
Thanks. To be fair, the part complete boat is not brand new, Patrick ( the ex-M.D. of Anderson Rigden & Perkins ) has hung on to her for a while as she would have been used to assist in ideas for new build boats, using the production moulds. The deck was moulded a few years ago, I have seen her and if I had the space I'd fit her out and sell her myself...
Patrick has never really thought about selling her !
As things have changed now and he's well into retirement and requires the space, he's decided to offer her either with the moulds if we can find someone willing to take on the new-build project ( or just store the moulds until the financial climate picks up ), or as a separate part complete boat.
As I've mentioned on the Anderson website, unless the new build project takes off this will be the last chance to fit out a kit Anderson 22...
Thanks. To be fair, the part complete boat is not brand new, Patrick ( the ex-M.D. of Anderson Rigden & Perkins ) has hung on to her for a while as she would have been used to assist in ideas for new build boats, using the production moulds. The deck was moulded a few years ago, I have seen her and if I had the space I'd fit her out and sell her myself...
Patrick has never really thought about selling her !
As things have changed now and he's well into retirement and requires the space, he's decided to offer her either with the moulds if we can find someone willing to take on the new-build project ( or just store the moulds until the financial climate picks up ), or as a separate part complete boat.
As I've mentioned on the Anderson website, unless the new build project takes off this will be the last chance to fit out a kit Anderson 22...
Last edited:
Lodds
Well-Known Member
A22
Sorry to bring up this very old post but I am considering getting an A22 and part of the appeal is that it can sit on the ground. The picture shows an A22 with the bulb clearly stuck out the bottom is this so for all A22's or is this an early model?
Thanks
Tony
Sorry to bring up this very old post but I am considering getting an A22 and part of the appeal is that it can sit on the ground. The picture shows an A22 with the bulb clearly stuck out the bottom is this so for all A22's or is this an early model?
Thanks
Tony
Seajet
...
Re: A22
Just to trawl up an old thread;
The answer to Tony's question was yes, the ballast bulb stays outside the hull but is veed on top so it fairs in and keeps out nasties like stones.
Apart from two examples which had special fixed fin keels, they cleaned up in Scottish club racing at the time - mid-late 1970's.
Tony now has a very good, late model re-engined Centaur with more electronics than NASA ( the space lot, not the other ones ) but seems to enjoy the odd spin on an A22.
Andy
Just to trawl up an old thread;
The answer to Tony's question was yes, the ballast bulb stays outside the hull but is veed on top so it fairs in and keeps out nasties like stones.
Apart from two examples which had special fixed fin keels, they cleaned up in Scottish club racing at the time - mid-late 1970's.
Tony now has a very good, late model re-engined Centaur with more electronics than NASA ( the space lot, not the other ones ) but seems to enjoy the odd spin on an A22.
Andy
Last edited:
langstonelayabout
Well-Known Member
Re: A22
Out of the two (J21 or A22) I'd have the A22, without a doubt. Strongly built and very, very seaworthy. Worth paying a premium for for one in very good condition.
Although my first choice in boats of that size and cost would be an E-Boat, although a very different animal from the A22.
People have raced and cruised 'the pond' in E-Boats and A22s. I'm not sure if I'd want to do that in. J21.
Out of the two (J21 or A22) I'd have the A22, without a doubt. Strongly built and very, very seaworthy. Worth paying a premium for for one in very good condition.
Although my first choice in boats of that size and cost would be an E-Boat, although a very different animal from the A22.
People have raced and cruised 'the pond' in E-Boats and A22s. I'm not sure if I'd want to do that in. J21.
Greenheart
Well-Known Member
Good threads never die...
Is that fair comment, Andy? Considering it was made nearly ten years back, even replaced standing rigging might be due for renewal by now...and does somebody still regularly make sails for the A22, often enough to be familiar with the job?
Most of all - just how dry - or not dry, are A22 hulls (which awoke Gin's doubts a decade ago), likely to be in 2018?
Is that fair comment, Andy? Considering it was made nearly ten years back, even replaced standing rigging might be due for renewal by now...and does somebody still regularly make sails for the A22, often enough to be familiar with the job?
Most of all - just how dry - or not dry, are A22 hulls (which awoke Gin's doubts a decade ago), likely to be in 2018?
DownWest
Well-Known Member
Dan
Dryness would be similar to any boat from that era. Any decent sailmaker could run up new ones. Rigging from S3i
Or, find one that has been well looked after and updated.
Dryness would be similar to any boat from that era. Any decent sailmaker could run up new ones. Rigging from S3i
Or, find one that has been well looked after and updated.