Anchors on bow rollers

[Robin]

Ours is a Delta and it sits in the bow roller because that is where I want it to be. It is heavy and awkward to lift inboard through the pulpit legs and past the roller headsail gear and in any case it still is within the overhang of the pulpit. If we removed the anchor our twin bow rollers look like a shotgun barrel and still stick out enough to do damage. We once saw a small Etap T-bone a boast in a berth opposite us and hole it very effectively with his bow roller and no anchor.

I'm thinking too of adding one on the stern, not because we anchor often fore/aft but as a kind of cattle prodder to keep our dinghy members off the transom as they short tack out of the marina en masse when the tide is too low to use their normal route. A whole fleet of short tacking Dart Cats is fearsome to behold and even more so when the RS400s, and the rest of the monohulls are going straight through them since the cats don't tack upwind very well at all.

IMHO those who propose lifting the anchor inboard and stowing it elsewhere probably have smaller boats with small anchors and don't anchor very often, I can assure you in this case size does matter.

 

[Ships_Cat]

Agree completely. Our stem is steel, the bow roller stucture is fabricated from around 6mm s/steel plate and I suspect anyone we teebone will not be much worried about if there is an anchor on the rollers or not.

But there will always be an anchor on the rollers cos I am not inclined to lift our 60 lb ones around and those with bigger boats and anchors will not even have the option to lift them.

I think many are talking from their own perspective (as is often the case) of little 10 kg anchors or whatever without considering that things are different on bigger boats. Besides, I would have considered it good seamanship that the anchor, especially when in pilotage, should be ready for rapid deployment.

I do believe though, that ships do the correct thing by carrying their anchors "shippie" wise. Very important that they keep anchors out of the way to minimise the damage if they teebone someones 30 foot pride and joy /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

John

 

[ccscott49]

They will enforce it once they've been sued for damage to your cranium!!

 

[awyatybw]

[ QUOTE ]
BUT I do agree that no boat should be moored with the anchor over the jetty/pontoon etc., even without the vino it is a positive danger, and I would agree that it is a negligent act, but as for the bow roller, well that is where my anchor will stay.

[/ QUOTE ]

Presumably this applies to anything protruding forward, such as a bowsprit. With my anchor on the roller, where it lives, it is a relatively insignificant protuberance compared to the sprit.

 

[hylass]

[ QUOTE ]
No anchor was actually designed to stow over the roller - despite all the claims and advertising - they are all designed to be stowed properly. It is laziness that has developed this common action - not necessarily of the present person - but from the action of many and it becoming accepted practice ... I can stow mine over the roller - but choose to do it properly in the designed deck chocks .... leaving the roller available for its other job - mooring line. Sorry - but I would like to see all anchors OFF rollers .....]

[/ QUOTE ]



Sorry If I have again a different opinion. According to the “Hylas school of anchoring” :0) - Some anchors are designed to stow over the roller, (and they are not the most expensive ones.. ) Simply look at the attached photo and to the nice round shape of the back part of the blade..

With such a shape, they are designed to be stored properly ON THE BOW ROLLER and they are no more aggressive than the bow pulpit itself..

But this is only a design consideration, don’t confuse laziness and SECURITY. On my own boat and except for long ocean crossings, the anchor as always been on the roller and will stay there for SECURITY reasons.. As I’m mostly sailing single handed or with a very limited crew, if I have to launch the anchor in emergency, with the anchor on the bow roller, I can launch it very rapidly, without living the cockpit.. And I had to do so several time..

Now about “a boat moored with the anchor over the jetty/pontoon” I’m not concerned as I’m very seldom attached to a pontoon..

Therefore for me too, my anchor will stay where it is for now, on the bow roller!.

 

[ChrisE]

Nice advert, Hylas. I'm looking forward to writing a glowing endorsement of my Spade........all for a small consideration, of course.


Asever I have no commercial attachment to this product,


yet!

 

[Guest]

So what is wrong with this then ???

Doesn't take long .... is neat, tidy, no problem to anyone ... reasonably ready for use .....

Can't see reason to change ............

/forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[Guest]

Ok - I concede various points ....

a) Some boats are bigger than others and manhandling the anchor is not practical - so an answer has to be found. Agreed.
b) Some later modern anchors have been adjusted to more suit stem stowage .... but primary design is to hold on sea-bed ... the biggest design change has actually been the stemhead to accommodate anchors.
c) Where a boat has its anchor stowed aft of the stemhead perpendicular - I have no argument with as then it does not constitute a hazard in marina or increase damage etc.
d) My anchor is a 25lb Plough .... and as can be seen from another post deck-chocked and reasonably handy ... but I am lucky that my roller drum is set high anyway .... as previous owner was not interested in deck-sweeping genny !!

Ok - I admit I generalised too much and assumed we were talking more the smaller to mid sized jobs where handling can be accomplished and I consider the act of leaving on roller unnecessary .........

So there you are one for the Diary - Luther concedes !!!!

/forums/images/graemlins/mad.gif

 

[duncan]

Re: So what is wrong with this then ???

very neat.

In the interests of this thread I took a lot of time looking at boats on moorings and at sea in Poole and the Solent this weekend - specifically in line with this post.

Generally, and with the one exception I will highlight in a moment, the bow fittings (for anchors or moorings) of yachts loked significantly more threatening than the average mobo bow even with an anchor stowed there.
Most mobo's had Bruce types (small in my opinion too) and didn't seem overly exposed to the front or deltas which were a little more exposed.
Now, the exception, Danforths or brittany types, mostly on smaller mobos, clamped up against a bow fitting. These looked seriously dangerous to anythings they came into contact with, including the ability to catch on wires or even tubing let alone body parts or GRP.
Sorry I didn't take photos but non doubt everyone has mental pictures anyway. I was surprised at how exposed and sharp looking the metal fittings were on many yachts though.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Whilst I have a slight sympathy with your point, I don't know what the practical alternative is with some boats.

For what its worth, we've never hit anything or anyone with our anchor (or anything else on the front of our boat for that matter) but anything can happen I suppose....

However, our main anchor is stowed on a bow roller and is designed to be there as far as I can see. I tie the head of the CQR up to one side when its stowed. There is no reasonable way that it could be brought aft and stowed on deck. Its not that it doesn't fit through the pulpit (although it would be very difficult), but it is just too heavy to be handled easily. Our boat isn't the largest at 39 feet, but a decent anchor (and ours is a largish CQR) becomes physically impossible to move from the bow and stow. When we had smaller boats, the anchor was always brought aft. Now with a family crew it just isn't possible...

For those who commented on Nich 55's and Victorias of the JSASTC, I drive those boats sometimes, and the fact that the anchor isn't on the deck is as much about the team work that is needed to bring it from below and then deploy it as any seamanship that is implied! Furthermore, standard practice is to bring a smaller kedge on deck in a crate whenever leaving or entering harbour in case of emergency.

 

[Twister_Ken]

2 points

When I raced offshore regularly, race instructions invariably said that anchors should not be stowed on the bow – granted racing fleets see more close quarter stuff than yer avg cruiser, but the principle is the same - aggravated damage in the case of a biff.

Also, a heavy anchor on the bow encourages the boat to pitch more (as does weight on the stern rail). You'll sail more comfortably and a little quicker if you bring its weight back closer to midships.

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: 2 points

Also, a heavy anchor on the bow encourages the boat to pitch more (as does weight on the stern rail).

Some, including ourselves, actually put weight in the bows to reduce pitching.

Perhaps instead of getting into tekkynickel discussion, consider that most agree that weight distributed away from the longitudinal axis towards the sides makes the boat more stable against rolling (easy example is two people in a rigid dinghy - dinghy much more stable if they sit side by side rather then both along the longitudinal axis). Same happens with pitching, distributing weight away from the axis of rotation stabilises the vessel.

Of course, other influences such as hull shape, natural frequency of the boat and that of waves encountered, etc but above just taking into account the effect of increasing the Mass Moment of Inertia.

John

 

[Guest]

weight at extremes ...

I think possibly Ken is referring to the action of more violent pitching can result from large weights at ends of boat.

Having weight at fwd end or aft .... reduces the boats initial start of pitching ... Ships Cat you are right ..... but once the action starts - the effective moment of that weight gives it more levereage to really get the boat pitching .... in the instance of weight fwd only - that will create a bow that digs in .... making it a very wet experience.

Bring the weight more distributed or to nearer the 'pivot-point' of the boat will yes ... make the boat more inclined to pitch initially ... but the pitching will be easier on the structure and boat .... OK - for us bods standing on the boat ... we feel uncomfortable and don't notice the difference in forces exerted on the fore and aft structure of the boat / keelson etc.

I have a boat with a over-sized engine and to compensate is a large amount of concrete poured in forward bilge. Believe me when I say - you know all about it .... she rides THROUGH most waves ... but once she starts pitching she lets you know all about it. The weight makes her slam .....

So as I see it - you are both right .... just a matter of interpretation and application ...

/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Ships_Cat]

Re: weight at extremes ...

With your smoothing the waters pitching would be impossible Nigel /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif.

Regards

John

 

[Guest]

Re: weight at extremes ...

I think lately - I've lost my touch .... or got more touchy as I get nearer pension !!!

/forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[bbg]

It occurs to me that this could be looked at from a wider cost-benefit perspective. Certainly in some cases where there is a collision, the anchor on a bow roller might aggravate damage, but as others have said, this is a trade off for having it easily deployable in an emergency. What reaction would an insurance company have if a boat was lost on a lee shore because an anchor could not be deployed in time to save it? What reaction would health insurers have with all the additional back and muscle strain problems that occurred due to trying to hoist a heavy anchor inboard (when a perfectly serviceable stemhead fitting was available)?

Perhaps an answer lies in designing a hinging stemhead fitting (as I think some larger boats now have) to bring the anchor inboard and stow it below decks at the same time.