Anchors (I know I know)

vas said:
except for his empty stomach as he wont have any money left after upgrading anchor, gypsy and chain (and swivel!)
:D
so everything is a compromise...
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But what price security? The OP could easily spend several hundred pounds or more upgrading his anchoring system but IMHO that would be money well spent. I know I sleep better at night on the hook knowing there's a sodding great lump of metal stuck in the ground and my boat is attached to it with a huge length of heavy chain.
 
Whitelighter said:
Not heard of the mantus anchor, will read the thread on the cruisers forum.

The mantus website recommends a 48kg anchor for a 50-60ft boat weighing 22,700kg
That's nuts surely......
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I don't think it's nuts. The bigger the better. I've got a 70kg Rocna on a 37 ton boat. Wouldn't want less. Weight and size in an anchor is a huge bang for the buck. Go for it, you won't regret it. Rocna, Mantus, Manson are a big step ahead of CQR/Delta.
 
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On the subject of swivels.
At the moment, we are trying without one.
It will be interesting to see what happens when anchored - in the islands the wind swings round 180 degrees virtually every night.
As far as recovery is concerned, our new Rocna looks like it will come up the wrong way round but if we bring the shaft slowly over the roller, it rotates itself correctly - just like the old banana swivel did on our old Delta.
Experience will tell.
IMO - Better not to have a swivel if we can get away without it.
 
Hurricane said:
On the subject of swivels.
At the moment, we are trying without one.
It will be interesting to see what happens when anchored - in the islands the wind swings round 180 degrees virtually every night.
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A few 360° turns will not cause any problems, but those anchorages where the winds swirl around can be a problem, although it is a very rare issue.

Each 360° turn will put a twist in the chain. If you get enough turns in the same direction without a swivel the chain can become twisted enough to cause problems. At anchor the twists are not apparent, but as the gypsy will not pass twisted chain as it is retrieved, the twists get compacted into the last bit of chain between the windlass and the anchor.

If there are enough twists the chain begins to "hockle" and will not pass through the windlass. If the scope at this stage is still reasonable it can be very hard to break out the anchor.

If you can break out the anchor it will spin around at alarming rate and the problem is solved. I stress this a very rare, but it can be tough to fix. To me the remote possibility of this problem does not justify a swivel, but if you anchor for long periods in areas of fluky winds and or changing current, especially in shallow water, your experience maybe different.

Here is some chain that is starting to "hockle" . The Mantus at this stage is still completely buried under the mud (you can just see the underwater anchor float) and the scope is 1:1.

image_zpszyxaonfs.jpeg
 
Jez sorry for highjacking a bit the thread, want an opinion from the esteemed members following this thread :)

after a day around the chandleries in Athens and a lot of haggling we have:

Mantus 20kg 524euro (maybe drop to close to 420 but atm he cannot do it)
Delta 20kg 285euro
Delta 25kg 449euro

Do I get the Mantus for 524 or the 25kg Delta for 80euro less?

All galv, 43ft 12ton

opinions (not buying tomorrow so have time to think about it)

cheers

V.
 
just an update for whitelighter, checked my Rocna anchor this afternoon its a 25Kg not a 33. I forgot the 33 wouldn´t fit into the sealine moulded anchor pocket. However I have been very impressed by its holding power on a fairly tall 18 ton flybridge. Re Vas , go for the Mantus, its a no brainer.
 
noelex said:
A few 360° turns will not cause any problems, but those anchorages where the winds swirl around can be a problem, although it is a very rare issue.

Each 360° turn will put a twist in the chain. If you get enough turns in the same direction without a swivel the chain can become twisted enough to cause problems. At anchor the twists are not apparent, but as the gypsy will not pass twisted chain as it is retrieved, the twists get compacted into the last bit of chain between the windlass and the anchor.

If there are enough twists the chain begins to "hockle" and will not pass through the windlass. If the scope at this stage is still reasonable it can be very hard to break out the anchor.

If you can break out the anchor it will spin around at alarming rate and the problem is solved. I stress this a very rare, but it can be tough to fix.
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I would have called such situation "extremely" rather than "very" rare, but that's semantic.
What I don't understand is why you think it's tough to fix, 'cause it's sufficient to make as many 360° turns as necessary with the boat, in the opposite sense of rotation.
A boring maneuver of course, which can take a while, but nothing so tough, surely? :)
 
vas said:
Do I get the Mantus for 524 or the 25kg Delta for 80euro less?
.
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If both were the same weight I'd say go for the Mantus but the extra 25% weight of the Delta and a saving of €80 would just tip the balance to the Delta for me. For me weight counts almost as much as design when choosing an anchor and the Delta is a good all round performer
 
Deleted User said:
For me weight counts almost as much as design when choosing an anchor
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+1.
I've yet to have any troubles (touch wood) with my brick shaped but pretty heavy anchors and lot of chain.
If that's good enough for ships, it's good enough for me. :encouragement:
 
MapisM said:
I would have called such situation "extremely" rather than "very" rare, but that's semantic.
What I don't understand is why you think it's tough to fix, 'cause it's sufficient to make as many 360° turns as necessary with the boat, in the opposite sense of rotation.
A boring maneuver of course, which can take a while, but nothing so tough, surely? :)
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Yep, that will work.
 
From what I have read about others and what I have experienced, the improvement from the newer, mainly concave anchors is really big like for like, weight and size, so a 25% increase in weight, not being a really big jump leads me to believe it will not match the design improvements from the Mantus. There are tests out there if you can track them down to be more scientific about it.
 
Zing said:
From what I have read about others and what I have experienced, the improvement from the newer, mainly concave anchors is really big like for like, weight and size, so a 25% increase in weight, not being a really big jump leads me to believe it will not match the design improvements from the Mantus. There are tests out there if you can track them down to be more scientific about it.
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You can find dozens of anchor tests on the internet but without exception they are all conducted in 'perfect' anchoring conditions ie in stiff sand or mud seabeds in which all the anchors on test can penetrate the seabed and I have no doubt that the modern anchor designs can demonstrate higher holding power in these conditions. But these conditions often don't represent the real world in which you often find that the seabed is covered in grass or weed. You can have the best anchor design in the world but if it isn't heavy enough to force its tip through the grass or weed to the seabed below the roots its pretty useless. I have no doubt that a Delta anchor will develop less holding power in many seabed conditions than a Mantus but in weed or grass I would back a heavier Delta to get a grip on the seabed better than a lighter Mantus which is why I say that IMHO weight is nearly as important as design
 
excellent in sand and mud, where it digs in and holds like anything but the design is challenged when dealing with big rocky bits. Wins outright on the grounds of mass, for handling purposes.
 
sarabande said:
excellent in sand and mud, where it digs in and holds like anything but the design is challenged when dealing with big rocky bits. Wins outright on the grounds of mass, for handling purposes.
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Yes, and then is sometimes so deeply stuck that when the wind moves and pulls from the side it might bend the shaft and it may not pull round smoothly into a new position such that when it does it may jump out altogether and skid skid along the ground instead of digging in. I think mine is great, just not all of the time. A outstanding warranty.

noelex above has a great thread on the CF forum on this sort of stuff: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f118/photos-of-anchors-setting-126073.html
 
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Deleted User said:
If both were the same weight I'd say go for the Mantus but the extra 25% weight of the Delta and a saving of €80 would just tip the balance to the Delta for me. For me weight counts almost as much as design when choosing an anchor and the Delta is a good all round performer
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Continuing my OT (sorry Jez) turns out that I can get the 20 kg Mantus for 430 and the 25kg delta for 450euro.
Following 2 V. embarrassing (albeit funny) failures last w/e I'm getting the Mantus on Monday.
Will temporarily hook it to my 8mm chain though until I figure how I can get 70m of 10mm pitch30 chain in my smallish locker...
More on the rebuilt thread next week

MapisM said:
+1.
I've yet to have any troubles (touch wood) with my brick shaped but pretty heavy anchors and lot of chain.
If that's good enough for ships, it's good enough for me. :encouragement:
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True but Id probably need a 60kg brick for Mitos...
I find it hard in many tight anchorages as I have no space for a decent scope (hence drifting twice on Sat) with regular wind changes...

Cheers
V.
 
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