anchoring up

[Hurricane]

But why would it let go?

There is only a clutch holding the windlass, Mark.

I have a short strop that we use to hold the anchor whilst the anchor is on board and under way etc.
This strop consists of a short length of rope with a soft eye/loop on one end and a carabiner on the other end.
When stowed, the carabiner clips onto the anchor and the other (loop) end loops over the windlass' capstan.
When we are anchored, the carabiner clips into a chain link and the other end loops over the windlass' capstan - thus forming a backup to hold the chain.

 

[simonfraser]

hook is great if its deep enough.
have had the hook pop off when resting on / near the mud ....

 

[Nigelpickin]

We have the mantus grabber and use that with a 5m bridle - the grabber will not work itself off the chain as a hook sometimes does. Very good bit of kit. The problem always comes if you need to get up and go in a hurry, the mantus grabber involves clipping on and off forward of the bow roller so that has to be considered.

 

[jrudge]

I think all these points are 100% valid, I think relying on the winch is questionable, and on my last boat I had a chain stopper.

However trumping all is in a blow and dragging ( Ibiza last year, moonless night and huge winds) there is no way I am putting me or anyone else on deck to faf about trying to release a bridle and would prefer the consequences of it slipping, waking me up and then dealing with it. I respect other may have different views, but mine is that the situation that requires it to be released ASAP is inevitably windy and dark.

 

[petem]

I think all these points are 100% valid, I think relying on the winch is questionable, and on my last boat I had a chain stopper.

However trumping all is in a blow and dragging ( Ibiza last year, moonless night and huge winds) there is no way I am putting me or anyone else on deck to faf about trying to release a bridle and would prefer the consequences of it slipping, waking me up and then dealing with it. I respect other may have different views, but mine is that the situation that requires it to be released ASAP is inevitably windy and dark.

So what do you do in these circumstances when you've raised the anchor?

 

[jrudge]

So what do you do in these circumstances when you've raised the anchor?

Re-anchor

There is not really any option!

 

[MapisM]

I respect other may have different views, but mine is that the situation that requires it to be released ASAP is inevitably windy and dark.

J, actually if you use either the hook I linked in post #4 or the one Hurric suggested, you don't need to release anything.
They just let go as soon as there's no tension on the chain anymore, so you can recover the chain and just leave the snubber hanging from the bow for as much as you need/like.

Btw, even with the carbine hook which I used in my previous boat (post #36), I did experiment recovering the chain with the hook and the lines still attached, because I also wondered about an emergency recover. And the winch pulled everything inside the chain locker, without batting an eye.
Though of course with a carbine hook you still must release the line(s) from the cleat(s) before winching in the chain.

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

I can see why you would struggle to attach any "form of hold" to the chain on your boat. With open bow rollers it's obviously easier.
You might try one of these things, which I think is what Hurricane suggested.
After attaching the line(s) to the round-ish ring, you can hang it from the bow and with some practice (and luck!) make it grab the chain.
Once done that, it's just a matter of securing the line/s to the bow cleat/s, while keeping the lines under tension, otherwise the thingie self-releases from the chain.

One easier alternative is not to do what you said you should.
Actually, I also prefer to release the chain tension from the windlass, particularly when overnighting.
But that's more to avoid the occasional grinding noise on the roller than anything else.
In fact, some forum members just don't bother, and I've yet to hear of someone whose windlass was ripped off the deck by the chain tension.

Thats the chain hook I use and its made by Osculati https://www.osculati.com/en/11004-m-000249/mooring-device-and-anchor-chain-gripper. It does fall off the chain very easily when you take tension off it but because of that it sometimes takes more than one go to attach it which can be a PITA as it often requires 2 people to fit it, one to locate the hook and the other to maintain tension on the bridle ropes

To be honest I find some of the opinions expressed on this thread to be surprising. Why wouldnt you take just a few minutes extra to fit a bridle with a chain hook to your anchor chain to take the strain off your windlass clutch and provide a peaceful night without the chain grinding on the bow roller? And why would you want to rely on the bit of string holding the bitter end of your chain to the boat if the clutch fails? And if you can't be arsed to do that, why wouldnt you fit a cheap chain stop which can do a similar job in terms of protecting the windlass and be applied in seconds? Your windlass is one of the most important items of equipment and it wouldnt half ruin your cruise if the clutch or some other component failed due to abuse

No I've never seen an anchor windlass ripped out of a deck either but I've seen one with a mounting so loose that you could move the windlass back and forth with your hand

 

[jrudge]

I have just looked at the links. The only ones I have seen before are per post 5. This one looks clever. If it auto releases then I will get one. The only thing I want to avoid is the need to go forward when it is all going wrong. !

Bought £39 on eBay

 

[Nigelpickin]

I have just looked at the links. The only ones I have seen before are per post 5. This one looks clever. If it auto releases then I will get one. The only thing I want to avoid is the need to go forward when it is all going wrong. !

Bought £39 on eBay

Get a big Rocna Jeremy and you won’t need to worry about dragging

someone else dragging into you on the other hand.....

 

[vas]

I have just looked at the links. The only ones I have seen before are per post 5. This one looks clever. If it auto releases then I will get one. The only thing I want to avoid is the need to go forward when it is all going wrong. !

Bought £39 on eBay

?
what did you buy for 39 quid? Jimmy Green 10mm chain one was only 12 quid.

I'm in Athens and will be boat bits shopping tomorrow, so could do one for that price

V.

 

[jrudge]

As the green one is a hook and it is not obvious it will release. The Deleted User one connects to the outside of the chain and basically has to fall off. ( as far as I can see )

 

[vas]

OK, had missed mike's post above

yes looks much better, see what I can find locally.

V.

 

[longjohnsilver]

Thats the chain hook I use and its made by Osculati https://www.osculati.com/en/11004-m-000249/mooring-device-and-anchor-chain-gripper. It does fall off the chain very easily when you take tension off it but because of that it sometimes takes more than one go to attach it which can be a PITA as it often requires 2 people to fit it, one to locate the hook and the other to maintain tension on the bridle ropes

To be honest I find some of the opinions expressed on this thread to be surprising. Why wouldnt you take just a few minutes extra to fit a bridle with a chain hook to your anchor chain to take the strain off your windlass clutch and provide a peaceful night without the chain grinding on the bow roller? And why would you want to rely on the bit of string holding the bitter end of your chain to the boat if the clutch fails? And if you can't be arsed to do that, why wouldnt you fit a cheap chain stop which can do a similar job in terms of protecting the windlass and be applied in seconds? Your windlass is one of the most important items of equipment and it wouldnt half ruin your cruise if the clutch or some other component failed due to abuse

No I've never seen an anchor windlass ripped out of a deck either but I've seen one with a mounting so loose that you could move the windlass back and forth with your hand

Am I alone in having a windlass with a pawl to effectively prevent the chain spilling out? Is it that unusual?

 

[Deleted User YDKXO]

Am I alone in having a windlass with a pawl to effectively prevent the chain spilling out? Is it that unusual?

Fair point but isnt the pawl fitted to stop the chain paying out if the anchor jumps off the bow roller rather than to resist the load of the boat at anchor?

 

[MapisM]

I can only remember to have seen once a windlass with a pawl on an american boat, and fwiw that was only meant to lock/secure the gipsy from spinning in the direction of letting the anchor down.
So, for all intent and purposes, that served exactly the same purpose of the chain lock that Hurric, yourself and myself (on the DP) have fitted. (*)
The thing you have in mind must be on the bow roller rather than on the windlass, I suppose.
Regardless, imho the best setup is the one where rather than a pawl there is a brake, as you can see (barely) at the bottom of the first pic in my post #36.
In fact, on top of releasing the tension from the gipsy, it also allows to pay out the chain freely, hence MUCH faster than with the motor, but still controlling and slowing down the descent as appropriate.

PS (*): on second thought, my sentence above wasn't 100% correct.
There is still a difference, i.e. that with the deck mounted lock the chain load is taken away not only from the clutch, but also from the whole windlass.

 

[MrB]

I can only remember to have seen once a windlass with a pawl on an american boat, and fwiw that was only meant to lock/secure the gipsy from spinning in the direction of letting the anchor down.
So, for all intent and purposes, that served exactly the same purpose of the chain lock that Hurric, yourself and myself (on the DP) have fitted. (*)
The thing you have in mind must be on the bow roller rather than on the windlass, I suppose.
Regardless, imho the best setup is the one where rather than a pawl there is a brake, as you can see (barely) at the bottom of the first pic in my post #36.
In fact, on top of releasing the tension from the gipsy, it also allows to pay out the chain freely, hence MUCH faster than with the motor, but still controlling and slowing down the descent as appropriate.

PS (*): on second thought, my sentence above wasn't 100% correct.
There is still a difference, i.e. that with the deck mounted lock the chain load is taken away not only from the clutch, but also from the whole windlass.

This maybe a stupid question but in your 1st pic on post #36 I see you have twin anchor arraignment. The port side of the windlass has a gypsy for rope, what is the starboard side for?

 

[longjohnsilver]

Fair point but isnt the pawl fitted to stop the chain paying out if the anchor jumps off the bow roller rather than to resist the load of the boat at anchor?

I really can’t say one way or another, but my Maxwell windlass (made in NZ I believe) has a pawl fitted and I use it to secure the chain once we’ve anchored. It’s a pretty sturdy piece of metal which so far has never failed. Touch wood it continues that way!

 

[MapisM]

This maybe a stupid question but in your 1st pic on post #36 I see you have twin anchor arraignment. The port side of the windlass has a gypsy for rope, what is the starboard side for?

Well spotted.
That windlass is a bit complicated because it's designed to handle two anchors independently, but with just one motor.
So, aside from the two brakes I previously mentioned (which are the round handles half visible at the bottom of the pic), there are also two clutches (round handles on the sides). This allows to use either port or stbd anchor, by playing with the brakes and clutches.

I'll try to explain it with an example, but bear with me, it's more tricky to describe it than put it in practice.
Under way, you have both clutches and both brakes locked. This gives 100% peace of mind that anchors are well secured.

For anchoring, you open the clutch on the side of the anchor which you want to use - say the stbd one.
Nothing happen, because it's still locked by its brake.
Then you release the stbd brake, and control the descent with that. It's also possible to use the motor for the descent of course, but it's pointless.
When done, you close both the stbd brake and clutch, and everything is locked again.

For pulling the hook, you must obviously release the stbd brake first, but if you would use the motor at that point, it couldn't spin, because its internal shaft is also connected to the port gipsy, whose clutch and brake are locked.
So, on top of the stbd brake, you must release also the port clutch. Remember, at this point the port anchor doesn't fall down because it's also locked by its brake.
Now you can pull the stbd anchor.
Eventually, you lock the stbd brake and the port clutch, and you're good to go.

I know it sounds complicated, but you can trust me if I tell you that I'd take that over the plain vanilla vertical windlass+bow roller and single anchor that I've got on the new boat - anytime!
That's what I keep saying to the friends of mine who bought my old lady, anyway!

 

[MrB]

Well spotted.
That windlass is a bit complicated because it's designed to handle two anchors independently, but with just one motor.
So, aside from the two brakes I previously mentioned (which are the round handles half visible at the bottom of the pic), there are also two clutches (round handles on the sides). This allows to use either port or stbd anchor, by playing with the brakes and clutches.

I'll try to explain it with an example, but bear with me, it's more tricky to describe it than put it in practice.
Under way, you have both clutches and both brakes locked. This gives 100% peace of mind that anchors are well secured.

For anchoring, you open the clutch on the side of the anchor which you want to use - say the stbd one.
Nothing happen, because it's still locked by its brake.
Then you release the stbd brake, and control the descent with that. It's also possible to use the motor for the descent of course, but it's pointless.
When done, you close both the stbd brake and clutch, and everything is locked again.

For pulling the hook, you must obviously release the stbd brake first, but if you would use the motor at that point, it couldn't spin, because its internal shaft is also connected to the port gipsy, whose clutch and brake are locked.
So, on top of the stbd brake, you must release also the port clutch. Remember, at this point the port anchor doesn't fall down because it's also locked by its brake.
Now you can pull the stbd anchor.
Eventually, you lock the stbd brake and the port clutch, and you're good to go.

I know it sounds complicated, but you can trust me if I tell you that I'd take that over the plain vanilla vertical windlass+bow roller and single anchor that I've got on the new boat - anytime!
That's what I keep saying to the friends of mine who bought my old lady, anyway!

It does sound rather complicated but I get the point behind it. Thanks for taking the time to explain it, everyday is indeed a learning day on here. :encouragement: