Anchor wrap round keel - what would you do?

[claymore]

Very difficult to understand any crcumstance in which the chain does not hang straight down from the bow roller until it contacts the seabed. Was it plastic chain?

Its not difficult to understand at all if you have a strong wind against tide situation and the boat wants to sail over the chain.

 

[vyv_cox]

Its not difficult to understand at all if you have a strong wind against tide situation and the boat wants to sail over the chain.

We have been in that situation countless times. I agree that fall of the chain might not be vertical but don't see how it could wrap around the keel, assuming it doesn't have huge wings.

 

[charles_reed]

Very difficult to understand any crcumstance in which the chain does not hang straight down from the bow roller until it contacts the seabed. Was it plastic chain?

I think it was octoplait - for that reason I have a bight of chain between the textile connection and boat.
Most unlikely to happen if you set the anchor with about 45" of 3000r pm in reverse. That straightens things out beautifully as well as digging the anchor in.

 

[lw395]

Its not difficult to understand at all if you have a strong wind against tide situation and the boat wants to sail over the chain.

Gusting wind over tide, sending the boat back and forth over the anchor, or even just over the start of the chain on the seabed.

 

[claymore]

Gusting wind over tide, sending the boat back and forth over the anchor, or even just over the start of the chain on the seabed.

Absolutely
Vyv - you are cordially invited to Fleetwood when the equinox is upon us - a 10m tide and a gale of wind should do it nicely. We'll spend a happy hour or two getting bounced around, alarmed by the sawing of chain on keel and once dried, we'll wander over to the Bourne Arms for Steak Pie and severial beers. Your treat on account of my assistance in extending your knowledge and expertise....

 

[JimC]

Not a million miles from Fleetwood I've had the same thing happen whilst on a mooring at Piel Island, strong wind against tide pushes boat up-tide of mooring. Strengthening tide regains mastery and boat drifts back over mooring picking up riser round keel.

 

[rogerthebodger]

4. Attach a fender to the rode end and drop it all overboard then come back and recover. We did not try this.

That's haw we did it on a racing boat with a bulb keel and it worked great much to our surprise.

 

[Seajet]

if you have a relatively small - 22' - deep keeler like mine, it's common for light wind over tide conditions to lead to the anchor warp wrapping around the keel, putting the boat broadside on to the current; an all chain rode would crucify performance.

2 easy answers;

either put a kedge halfway down the bower warp as an angel to keep the warp below and clear of the keel,

OR

tow a bucket / sea anchor off the stern, IF there's sufficient space to swing at maximum scope.

 

[Robin]

Undo the keel bolts?


I think having all chain rode would prevent this.

Yonks ago I had a Liz 30 which came with a mixed chain/warp rode and it wrapped the keel one night in wind against tide where we were anchored in South deep in Poole. There was a very loud bang when the rope finally parted, having sawn through rubbng on the quite sharp trailing edge of the keel. Fortunately we had a spare anchor that got us through until daylight as well as a folding grapnel which we used successfully to drag for the lost anchor/rode. the following weekend we fitted an all chain rode and ever since we have only ever had all chain rodes on any of our boats, not counting the ability to add a bit of extra string for when in ultra deep spots. The only good thing with using mainly rope rodes is that they are quieter , and if nylon, absorb a little of the snatch loads, otherwise they are an invention of the devil IMO.

 

[Seajet]

No, rope warps save carting around a huge weight of chain !

If on a big steel boat charting Patagonia then chain is spiffing; for weekend and holiday sailing and only occasionally anchoring in a cruiser / racer under say 30', nylon warp is the stuff to have if one knows what one's doing.

 

[simonfraser]

Yonks ago I had a Liz 30 which came with a mixed chain/warp rode and it wrapped the keel one night in wind against tide where we were anchored in South deep in Poole. There was a very loud bang when the rope finally parted, having sawn through rubbng on the quite sharp trailing edge of the keel. Fortunately we had a spare anchor that got us through until daylight as well as a folding grapnel which we used successfully to drag for the lost anchor/rode. the following weekend we fitted an all chain rode and ever since we have only ever had all chain rodes on any of our boats, not counting the ability to add a bit of extra string for when in ultra deep spots. The only good thing with using mainly rope rodes is that they are quieter , and if nylon, absorb a little of the snatch loads, otherwise they are an invention of the devil IMO.

multiplait is excellent, never had it wrap round my keel or rudder, quiet too, IMO.

 

[Seajet]

I use 18' of 5/16" chain ( both to avoid chafe on the seabed and give a horizontal angle of pull ) to the 7.5kg Bruce and 30 metres of 14mm nylon bower - never got near using all 30 metres but occasionally used the 7.5kg grapnel kedge halfway down as an angel.

Anyone who fancies carrying 30 metres of chain on a 22' boat might be better employed skippering a tanker or tug !

 

[Robin]

I use 18' of 5/16" chain ( both to avoid chafe on the seabed and give a horizontal angle of pull ) to the 7.5kg Bruce and 30 metres of 14mm nylon bower - never got near using all 30 metres but occasionally used the 7.5kg grapnel kedge halfway down as an angel.

Anyone who fancies carrying 30 metres of chain on a 22' boat might be better employed skippering a tanker or tug !

I had 90 ft of 1/4 inch chain on a 22foot Robert Tucker Debutante way back in the day, then the same of 5/16 inch on a Halycyon 23 and a then Trident 24, but then they were 'proper' boats, the Liz 30,after busting the inherited warp rode, had 90 ft of 5/16 too. I went up to an inherited 150ft of 8mm originally on the W33 we had much later but upgraded that to 150ft of 10mmm when we fitted an electric windlass to replace the standard manual one . we inherited 180ft of 10mm on the Sun Legende 41 that followed the Westerly 33, also with an electric windlass. We now carry 150 feet of 3/8 HT chain on our 36 foot Benny Oceanis 36 but nowadays of course we sail in very skinny waters where 20 feet is considered a deep sea canyon. I don't skipper tugs or tankers but do like to sleep at nights and much prefer anchoring to marinas, piles and visitor buoys. Chain is not just for strength, it is chafe resistant and self stows.



These days there is probably an App to replace old fashioned chain, but then that is progress.:ambivalence:

 

[Seajet]

Which is why I use 18' of heavy chain at the anchor end, to resist chafe,

Seeing as it would be hard to slow down a Debutante even with the anchor streamed from the back all the time, we may have to agree to differ on ideas of ' proper ' boats !

I have done plenty of anchoring in my Anderson 22 since 1978 - and also used rope warp on my Carter 30 - and neither boat has blown up yet as a result of having insufficient anchors or warps...

 

[Robin]

Which is why I use 18' of heavy chain at the anchor end, to resist chafe,

Seeing as it would be hard to slow down a Debutante even with the anchor streamed from the back all the time, we may have to agree to differ on ideas of ' proper ' boats !

I have done plenty of anchoring in my Anderson 22 since 1978 - and also used rope warp on my Carter 30 - and neither boat has blown up yet as a result of having insufficient anchors or warps...

Well I tried the anchor off the stern idea on the Debutante so as not to embarrass the Anderson 22s racing at the club but it was not enough.

Seriously, however, I was actually getting to like the quiet and reduced snatch on the Liz 30 with a combined chain/nylon rode until we had the keel wrap incident. It did happen in a place ( South Deep, behind the islands in Poole)where the tidal currents run very fast and it was very difficult, nay near impossible, to find a free spot to anchor where the wind was not directly against it for the entire tidal cycle. we awoke to a loud vibrating and thrumming noise of the rope under huge tension and the boat (longish fin/half-skeg) laying side on to the current, followed just as I got on deck by a big bang and an unplanned drift down the harbour. We carried a spare Danforth, as required by the then race rules, and quickly deployed that until daybreak when we located the original ( also a Danforth) with a folding grapnel we used for the dinghy and recovered it. The new all chain rode was in place in the foredeck anchor well locker the following weekend and it served us well for the rest of our years with that boat.

I hate anchoring in strong wind against tide situations because the boat will always try to ride over the rode and, if using all chain, graunch the chain over the underwater hull potentially causing damage to it but at least it will not simply break like the nylon did. I tried all the usual tricks of the trailing bucket variety too without success. (on the Deb, we still left the A22s behind!)

Toothpick anchors and very long string rodes are the norm over here in doodle land and we see them wandering over wide areas in the anchorage that we overlook from our condo home. We occasionally get woken by the flashing of torches too when the maypole dancing starts if there is a breeze blowing against the flow

Of course your A22 ha a lifting keel, do you raise it when anchoring? If so the keel wrap scenario I guess would be very unlikely? Our current boat has a 5.2ft draught wing keel that has sticky out catchy bits on it, We also have to contend with possibly anchoring over coral where ground chafe is a risk to be aware of.