anchor vs masthead light

[VicS]

Heating a Victorian coil of wire up to near-melting point in order to use the glow given off as a side-effect has no place on a sailing boat

Pete

I think incandescent filament bulbs have had a place on sailing boats for quite a few years. It is only relatively recently that LEDs have become an alternative.


Anyway the Victorians used carbon filament bulbs didn't they

 

[sailorman]

I think incandescent filament bulbs have had a place on sailing boats for quite a few years. It is only relatively recently that LEDs have become an alternative.


Anyway the Victorians used carbon filament bulbs didn't they

Dont be so tilley

 

[Poignard]

If you talk to commercial sailors (who universally despise yachties, even when they sail themselves) yachts are a menace after dark, due to their inadequate lights), they dislike masthead tricolours, because they wobble and deck-level navigation lights because they're invisible. One thing they're all agreed on though is the masthead riding light as being vastly superior.

You speak as if you know all about what commercial sailors think; and who am I to argue with you (despite having having been one) but I think you are wrong.

The days when merchant ships went to sea with a lookout posted and the officer-of-the-watch patrolling the bridge with binoculars hanging round his neck, are long gone. For many years the main thing the OOW looks at is the radar. If you don't show up on the screen you don't exist.

As regards the masthead riding light being vastly superior - any officer who inadvertently allows his ship to stray into the shallow waters of a yacht anchorage has probably got more important things on his mind than what type of lights the yachts are fitted with. Things such as: "How am I going to earn my living when I lose my certificate of competency?" for example!

 

[rgarside]

This is COLREGS Rule 30:-
Rule 30
Anchored vessels and vessels aground
(a) A vessel at anchor shall exhibit where it can best be seen:
(i) in the fore part, an all-round white light or one ball;
(ii) at or near the stern and at a lower level than the light prescribed in sub- paragraph (i), an all-round white light.
(b) A vessel of less than 50 metres in length may exhibit an all-round white light where it can best be seen instead of the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) of this Rule.
(c) A vessel at anchor may, and a vessel of 100 metres and more in length shall, also use the available working or equivalent lights to illuminate her decks.
(d) A vessel aground shall exhibit the lights prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule and in addition, where they can best be seen:
(i) two all-round red lights in a vertical line;
(ii) three balls in a vertical line.
(e) A vessel of less than 7 metres in length, when at anchor, not in or near a narrow channel, fairway or anchorage, or where other vessels normally navigate, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shape prescribed in paragraphs (a) and (b) of this Rule.
(f) A vessel of less than 12 metres in length, when aground, shall not be required to exhibit the lights or shapes prescribed in sub-paragraphs (d) (i) and (ii) of this Rule.

So if your vessel is less than 50m you may show the all round light "where it may best be seen", those who feel that others should place their light exactly where they themselves would have placed them might be encouraged to consider that others may have lights in different locations.

A masthead allround white light with an incandescent bulb can have an LED "bulb" fitted in it to reduce current draw while retaining light output.

If you have "working, or equivalent" lights you are at liberty to show them while at anchor.

 

[charles_reed]

You speak as if you know all about what commercial sailors think; and who am I to argue with you (despite having having been one) but I think you are wrong.

The days when merchant ships went to sea with a lookout posted and the officer-of-the-watch patrolling the bridge with binoculars hanging round his neck, are long gone. For many years the main thing the OOW looks at is the radar. If you don't show up on the screen you don't exist.

As regards the masthead riding light being vastly superior - any officer who inadvertently allows his ship to stray into the shallow waters of a yacht anchorage has probably got more important things on his mind than what type of lights the yachts are fitted with. Things such as: "How am I going to earn my living when I lose my certificate of competency?" for example!

I can only report the remarks of those to whom I've spoken, the last was an ExtraMaster in Vis. I'd agree that few, if any, ships now bother with an eye-ball lookout and ship's officer in their right mind would wander off into yacht anchorage depths - but ships go through Poole Harbour and yachts have been known to anchor there!!
The last time I anchored near a ship channel was off la Coruna in 20m. I was glad to use my masthead light rather than a guttering oil-lamp.

Unless with an active radar-beacon fibreglass yachts can be a notoriously bad return on X band.

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I suspect that for the majority of us it's all pretty academic. Most of us only anchor in fair weather conditions, in recognized anchorages or in out of the way spots. It will be different for the hardened liveaboards who hang of a hook for weeks on end.

The majority of the time when I go into an anchorage it is still daylight. When I return to the boat from the pub I can usually see the boats, regardless of whether they have anchor lights on.

 

[lw395]

I suspect that for the majority of us it's all pretty academic. Most of us only anchor in fair weather conditions, in recognized anchorages or in out of the way spots. It will be different for the hardened liveaboards who hang of a hook for weeks on end.

The majority of the time when I go into an anchorage it is still daylight. When I return to the boat from the pub I can usually see the boats, regardless of whether they have anchor lights on.

I think I've known more people struggle to find their own boat among moorings than who've failed to see an anchored boat.
I've spent ages on the Salcome water taxi with people who couldn't tell their AWB from all the others!
The RORC standard reflective tape on my liferings gave mine away from quite a distance using a 2AA diving torch. My boat had a dark hull BTW.
There are definitely circumstances where a masthead anchor light is good, it means you can be seen around bends in rivers, or where there is a clutter of low down light.
Equally, sometimes lower lights are better.
These days it is so easy to fix up some LED's so that your boat is visible in most circumstances and easy to tell from other boats.
Leave some orange LED's on in the cabin or something!

 

[Rigger Mortice]

I think I've known more people struggle to find their own boat among moorings than who've failed to see an anchored boat.

I have some reflective tape half way up my mast for exactly that reason. So long as I have a decent torch with me I can spot the boat from a few hundred yard away.

 

[duncan99210]

To spot the boat in an anchorage we have a couple of those solar powered garden lights that cycle through 4 or 5 different colours. Too low powered to be mistaken for nav lights but great for marking your boat in amongst all the others. I use either a mast head LED light or one hoisted in the shrouds; both are controlled by light sensative switches so use minimum power.

 

[dunmor]

i personally think we take the colregs to seriously, as long as your boat can be clearly seen and avoided
and you feel safe does it really matter what lights you show!

 

[onesea]

Any single anchor light merely shows that there is a boat somewhere under it. It gives no indication of length, attitude etc. May I suggest that you get a torch?

I find minimal light and properly adjusted eyes better, as soon as torch is used your eyes are knackered for some time. you need more light you can see less... Each to there own, I guess I am a traditionalist at heart...

The days when merchant ships went to sea with a lookout posted and the officer-of-the-watch patrolling the bridge with binoculars hanging round his neck, are long gone. For many years the main thing the OOW looks at is the radar. If you don't show up on the screen you don't exist.

I'd agree that few, if any, ships now bother with an eye-ball lookout

Of a night that should certainly not be the case, a lookout is required by international law.. Off a day the OOW can only be on his own if his only duty is to maintain the navigational watch.
How good the quality of look out kept is well that comes down to the individual... Although most large ships now have some form of black box to record whats been said on the bridge...

i personally think we take the colregs to seriously, as long as your boat can be clearly seen and avoided and you feel safe does it really matter what lights you show!

Within reason I think you have a point, although an effort to keep to the spirit of the requirements is a good thing.

 

[GrahamM376]

i personally think we take the colregs to seriously, as long as your boat can be clearly seen and avoided
and you feel safe does it really matter what lights you show!

It matters when you've had a collision and are found at fault through not showing correct lights + in some countries you would have a heavy fine as well.

 

[prv]

Incidentally some anchor lights have a "dioptric" lens so the light is concentrated for a viewer on roughly the same level. Masthead lights on sailing yachts don't have this.

I'm fairly sure the ones on my masthead do. Perhaps they shouldn't.

I think incandescent filament bulbs have had a place on sailing boats for quite a few years. It is only relatively recently that LEDs have become an alternative.

Sure, have had .

Pete

 

[winsbury]

Sure, have had .
Pete

The LED is undoutedly lower power / more efficient and more reliable (provided power regulation is in place ) but proper waterproofed marine ones (the cheap non-waterproof ones wont last long in the marine environment in spite of what the fleabay ad might say) are around 10x the price of a standard navigation bulb which are already 10x the price of a similar wattage vehicle bulb; ie marine users are stung yet again with 100x the price for a lamp versus the average motorist. Additionally, LED's disperse their light less well than conventional filament bulbs and have a different colour so my understanding is that its not always just a case of swapping out the bulb because the filter and lens in the fitting with the bulb together form a 'system' which is designed to meet the colreg requirements for distance AND colour.

I dont know about anyone else but mis-selling and high cost of retro-fitting LED nav lights is why I and possibly others are not willing to throw out their old nav lights for LED versions just yet especially if they dont regularly navigate at night. However after reading all the replies; a relatively low cost purpose built LED anchor light which can be rigged up along with the anchor ball as required as mentioned earlier in this thread seems eminently sensible to me.

 

[prv]

I and possibly others are not willing to throw out their old nav lights for LED versions just yet

Sure, and I'm not being entirely serious. But any time someone has concerns over power usage, as the post I was responding to did, ceasing to heat up coils of wire has to be a good start.

Pete

 

[winsbury]

Sure, and I'm not being entirely serious. But any time someone has concerns over power usage, as the post I was responding to did, ceasing to heat up coils of wire has to be a good start.

Pete

I agree in theory and indeed looked at swapping out for LED when I first got the boat but the cost to do it properly was prohibitive although might be worth doing just for the all round white light. What put me off doing this was the amount of sailors that seem to strongly dislike masthead anchor lights though my particular mast isnt all that tall at around 9m.

I was also interested in where and why others mount their anchor lights as they do as there seems to be such a lot of controversy over this subject and such a wide variety of methods employed in practice when the colregs are pretty clear on the requirements.

My conclusion is that swapping the white all round for a white LED and having a temporary LED light that I can hang on the boom with some reflective 3m tape somewhere unique gives the best of all worlds - meets the regs, reduces power requirement, can be seen close or far, lights the cockpit for security and a homely welcome, helps to locate the boat when coming back from shore and doesnt break the bank. Solved !

 

[rgarside]

Incidentally some anchor lights have a "dioptric" lens so the light is concentrated for a viewer on roughly the same level. Masthead lights on sailing yachts don't have this.

Aquasignal Series 40 have Fresnel lenses [I think that's what is being referred to as "dioptric"] in both the tricolour and all-round sections of the masthead light.

 

[VicS]

Aquasignal Series 40 have Fresnel lenses [I think that's what is being referred to as "dioptric"] in both the tricolour and all-round sections of the masthead light.

And series 25

 

[dunmor]

It matters when you've had a collision and are found at fault through not showing correct lights + in some countries you would have a heavy fine as well.

well yes, fair point, but if your hanging a anchor light of the fore stay, and got the rest of the boat lit up like a xmas tree could their fault you for that?!

 

[GrahamM376]

well yes, fair point, but if your hanging a anchor light of the fore stay, and got the rest of the boat lit up like a xmas tree could their fault you for that?!

The only case I know of (first hand from the owner) was a boat on anchor in Spain. Got hit by a fishing boat and was found guilty of not using correct anchor light and therefore at fault. IIRC he was using garden lights.