Anchor swivel are they necessary.

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mocruising

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How many of you guys use those bright shiny anchor swivels, are they necessary do they make a difference. My anchor seems to come up and stow right every time so do I need one. I rarely anchor for days on end in the same spot so the chain never comes up in knots.

Thought prevoking.

Rgds
 
They do have some utility if you remain at anchor over several tides. However, the also introduce a weak point, so if adding a swivell, make sure it is a well made proper one rather than an ebay offering.
 
I now use one of these...

"The Twist", see:

http://www.superyachtdoc.com/html/superyacht_doc__hampshire_uk_-17.html

The problem I kept getting was when hauling the anchor, it would try to come over the bow roller "upside down" half the time. This neat little odd shaped swivel cures this problem - it turns the anchor the right way round every time. It's not much more expensive (surprisingly!!) than an average good quality stainless steel swivel.

Cheers,

Jerry
 
Agree with most here, not necessary and a definite 'weak link' IMHO. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

The only time one might help is when weighing anchor with a windlass, where a swivel does (or should) allow the anchor to flip over to the correct position if the chain has twisted. HOWEVER, even here, I wouldn't use one unless you are otherwise relying on SWMBO to turn the anchor/chain over manually with the associated risk of damaged fingers etc. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

We've anchored hundreds of times in the last thirty odd years and have got over the twisted chain problem with a windlass, by simply lowering it down a short way and turning the chain on the gypsy manually, or letting the twists spin out themselves then recovering as normal. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Cruising full time, we wouldn't entertain a swivel on any of our anchoring systems.

Cheers Jerry
 
Now you WOULD think.....

...that if a plough anchor sits in it's self launcher/stower the right way up and there aren't any twists in the chain that the gipsy would ensure that the anchor came back up to the bow roller, "right way down".

Well, it doesn't!"

The reason I have fitted a (KONG) swivel is that previously the anchor always ended up in the stower in an inverted position and without the swivel it would turn the chain in the gipsy and trip it, sending metres of chain back out over the roller out of control.

And most of our anchoring is when mooring stern-to in the Med.

Swivels need regular checking but if you have one like the Kong which doesn't rely upon it's load bearing pins to hold itself together, then the chances of it failing are quite small and certainly no greater than a bow shackle coming undone.

Steve Cronin
 
Have never found the need for a swivel myself and anchor is almost always correct way around. In fact I have never had or been on a boat that has needed a swivel and for reliability reasons I would never use one.

We have quite a long run from the bow roller to the windlass and the bow roller is not grooved for the chain, so very occasionally the chain will roll sideways on the roller putting a twist in it between the roller and the windlass, and thus the anchor then does not come up exactly right way around. But is just a case of lifting the horizontal chain run a bit by hand and twisting it and dropping again to fix.

In my view, in the case of a grooved bow roller, one would have to have something drastically wrong if the anchor ever comes up wrong way around.

John
 
Wiggo described to me this week a simple gadget that ensures the anchor will come in correctly orientated.
So simple that it made sense to me. I'll ask him to elucidate?
 
Like most participants, I do not think a swivel is necessary:
- First, under load no swivel are working properly.
- Most of them have a working strength much lower than the chain and they can be the WEAK link of the chain..

“The problem I kept getting was when hauling the anchor, it would try to come over the bow roller "upside down" half the time.”

This is a very common feature of nearly all “Pough” anchors.. for a very simple physical law..

When you are weighting your anchor, usually the boat is going forward slowly.. and when the anchor come at the surface of the water, it naturally come on the way of the lowest resistance: the tip facing forward..
If then you are going a little bit BACKWARD, the anchor will turn itself in the “Right” position before going up to the bow roller..
See the attached photo of one anchor swivel.. ?
CorrosioncristalineR.jpg
FixaHylas2.jpg
 
I have nothing \"drastically Wrong\"..but...

mine always comes up wrong way up.

There is never any instance of anyone understanding that things don't always work their way on this forum and that other poeple have other experiences.

If mine comes up wrong then maybe something is wrong. It isn't so I must be lieing mustn't I?

Steve Cronin
 
Re: I have nothing \"drastically Wrong\"..but...

Sorry if you took offence Steve, but it does seem to me on rereading my post that I gave my experience and that I have correctly related that experience without making any wider claims.

Except that -

I did say that if the bow roller is grooved then <font color="red">"...in my view..." </font> one would have to have something drastically wrong (assuming that the chain is led back to a gypsy) if the anchor came up the wrong way around.

I stand by that view with respect to the grooved roller case (a view of mine, and to which I understand that I am entitled). In such an arrangement, as long as the anchor goes over the roller correct way round (assuming it is launched off the roller) it is not possible for the anchor to come up wrong way around unless there is a pre-existing twist in the chain between the anchor and the gypsy before launch (and that should not be the case if set up properly, in my view) which manages to somehow transfer itself over the bow roller during the launching.

If the anchor is not launched off the roller it will not come up the wrong way round if the anchor hangs over the bow the correct way around when launched and the chain in the groove and no twist in the chain back to the gypsy.

That is my view and experience. You are perfectly entitled to dismiss it if you wish, but I am surprised that it warrants offence being taken from it.

Also, my post was in response to the original poster and not hung off nor meant to be a response to your own.

For what it may be worth, you happen to be one of the posters whose experiences and views I respect.

John
 
It just happens....

or at least it did up to three years ago when I fitted the swivel.

Of course the gipsy aligns the chain as it goes out but as you lower it to the seabed through several metres of water the anchor screws around like a falling sycamore seed so the chain betwixt roller and gipsy can take a turn. Then of course it can twist as it comes back up through the water and not necessarily enough to compensate.

I stood on the quay at Gaios on Paxos last week and watched several charter boats moving off counting three who's anchors came into the self launcher, inverted.

Those who swing to anchor in a tideway must, if they're spun around their anchor, also have a risk of chain tristing.

When we moor in deep harbours like Simi or Lehonidion we need to use all of our 60mtrs of chan plus some of the rope run-out so then of course there would be a real danger of the anchor inverting of we hadn't the swivel.

I am very particular about the quality of the swivel and wouldn't use one of the cheap ones like a trem because they use the pins upon which your anchor and chain are secured to hold the device together therefore making it susceptible to opening by deflection of the chain or anchor and inherently weak to sideways pulls (although this should be counteracted by the imposition of a bow shackle avioding direct connection of the swivel to the anchor stock) The Kong however has fixed pins for anchor and chain attachment and is held together by a central set screw which is neither in shear nor tension.
That someone has gone to the trouble of manufacturing the device below must show that others are aware of the same problem.

Steve Cronin

http://www.superyachtdoc.com/html/superyacht_doc__hampshire_uk_-17.html
 
Re: It just happens....

Steve, I think there may be a little misundertsanding here.

By a grooved bow roller I mean one where the roller is machined out so that the chain fits into it like so -
Roller.jpg

not one with a radius. I think I am correct in saying that there will be something drastically wrong if the chain twists through that, so as long as the chain is set aligned with no twist from gypsy to anchor stock when first shackled to the anchor. When the anchor is raised and comes up out of the water it will self rotate to correct any twist that had developed between the roller and deployed anchor.

Our own rollers are not like that, being just radiused, but as I said we have no problem (with a plough anchor, similar to CQR) and I have not seen or experienced it on others. Yours, and others experience may be different.

Regards

John
Image hosted by xs.to
 
Re: It just happens....

I agree that the chain in a bow roller like that must untwist itself as it comes up. If there is also some rope rode, though, the chain could enter the roller in any orientation. It's like the dropped slice of toast - given any sort of chance, it will always come up the wrong way up (or down in the case of the toast!). So far, my experience is that it seems to be about 50:50, but I usually manage to man-handle it in the roller to rotate it. I might consider a swivel, though.
 
Re: It just happens....

We don't use rope. Didn't think anyone else sensible did either -- Errrr, Whoops, now I will be in big trouble /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I see Steve uses rope and gets down to it sometimes, which indeed is then a problem in the right way up stakes.

John
 
Re: It just happens....

60metres is the absolute capacity of my locker. Even then we have to stop several times to push the pile over or it jams in the "hawespipe" forcing the chain off the gipsy - then it all runs out again.

The front bow roller IS grooved but being rubber, wet chain soon finds it's way out. The swivel stays!

I have noticed that Deltas & Bruces don't often have swivels. Probably because unlike ploughs they don't corkscrew on their way up or down. However, a Bruce wouldn't be my choice as a bow anchor when moorinfg stern-to as I've seen too many of them fouled by a single boulder which reduces their holding 7 digging power drastically.

When we need a new anchor I think that I may consider the Delta seriously. However, that won't be for a while yet as the next swap will be the hernia inducing stern anchor (A Britany - why one "t" I don't know) for an aluminium Fortress

Steve Cronin
 
I had a swivel on my anchor and wasn't happy that I could not use seizing wire on the locking system.

Then the only time we have ever dragged with our Spade anchor I found the swivel had somehow flopped and jammed forward so the chain was incorrectly led.

I took the swivel off and have since had more twists in the chain, but I just didn't trust that swivel...
 
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