Anchor lights - risks of not showing correct lights

[Ships_Cat]

I suspect that you are right but qualified so and the rule provides the qualification.

I also think that such would be unlikely to eventuate in practice - for example and going to the extreme, a light with 6 degree sectors obscured only one degree apart all around (so only visible for 40 degrees or whatever it works out to be) certainly would not comply.

So I suspect the expectation is a max of 6 degrees (and it is hard to imagine a reasonable situation where that could not be limited to one direction) but can be more than that if impractical to get the height, not means that one can have as many 6 degree sectors as one wishes.

John

 

[cliff]

<span style="color:black">Bu</span>gger - you beat me to it.

'Tis amazing what one finds when one actually reads the col regs.
--------------------

"Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity"

 

[john_morris_uk]

[ QUOTE ]
When you consider that aircraft large, small and worldwide have 'high-intensity strobing anti-collision lights' and that these co-exist with red/port and green/starboard lights without confusion, to 'see and be seen', it is hard to understand the IMO's reluctance to incorporate this new technology in the interests of our safety.

[/ QUOTE ] There's no bouyage in the air. If we all took to using strobes all the time, the sea would become an even more confusing place.

How can someone tell the difference (at a distance in murky weather) between your strobe and a N. Cardinal mark? Don't you think a white flare, or a high power torch might have done the same job? IMHO its not hard to see why this technology is not adopted in the interests of safety. There might conceivably be a place for a high power strobe for use in search and rescue operations, but for general use at sea or at anchor, please don't use them!

 

[jenku]

Oh no, not all of Europe. Sweden has the US rule also. And we don't need to show a cone while motorsailing with only mainsail up.

 

[bilbobaggins]

[ QUOTE ]
If we all took to using strobes all the time, the sea would become an even more confusing place.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is not suggested that these be used 'all the time', John, only in circumstances of need to 'see and be seen'. It's perhaps a little disingenuous, and a 'reductio ad absurdum', to imply otherwise.

And the observation that there is no buoyage in the air is irrelevant and misleading. Look above any major airport on a clear night, and one will see plenty of strobe lights, red and green running lights, landing lights, all over the sky..... The people driving those machines manage to avoid each other *because* they have high-visibility anti-collision lights, and they would not willingly do without them.

I am well aware of Rule 36, ' If necessary to attract the attention of another vessel any vessel may make light or sound signals ....', and the specific prohibition therein relating to strobe lights. I refer also to Rule 2a, and seek to raise here a considered discussion of the relative merits of such devices, specifically to attract the attention of another 'RoC' vessel showing no sign of having seen oneself, and specifically to avoid a clearly-developing risk of collision.

It has been the practice, for as long as I've been going near boats, to keep to hand a white flare or two, or a powerful spotlight, for use to help indicate presence when an approaching vessel shows no sign of having seen oneself, and a risk of collision exists. Many boats no longer carry white flares - I crewed on a recent Fastnet Race where the owner, when asked about the RORC 'mandatory' white flares prior to a night watch, replied "What do you want one of them for?" He was a member of RORC's Safety Committee. On another friend's boat, the white flare which lived for years on a shelf just inside the companionway crumbled to pieces when it was moved for access. On a dark night, crossing St George's Channel on the wind with a failed engine, we were overhauled at speed from the lee quarter by a Spanish fishing vessel. Our 'SeaMe' radar transponder device was functioning, as were our conventional lights, but this MFV remained steady on a collision course. Torches shone on sails and in his direction had no effect. When he got to about 200 yards, I operated a handheld strobe in the cockpit, and he sheered off within seconds. All of us were convinced that *only* the use of this device got his attention. On another occasion in a Channel winter gale, many years before, a Cornish lifeboat couldn't find us despite RT comms and GPS, due to the size of the breaking seas. They asked us to use a flare or illuminate, and I told them I'd use a strobe - which they saw within seconds.

Those experiences suggest to me that there is merit in the devices' use, in wholly-appropriate circumstances, and that we should perhaps be querying, via the RYA and MCA, that part of Rule 36 referred to below. After all, the ColRegs do evolve with developing technology and need.

/forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Anonymous]

You make the point well that in extremis white strobes could be valuable - one would hope to never need to deploy one, any more than one hopes to deploy a GPS EPIRB.

To my mind they should be used when you consider yourself to be in 'grave and imminent danger' though unlike a 'mayday' you would not be requesting 'immediate assistance', only that others become aware of your position and behave accordingly.

 

[SvenglishTommy]

[ QUOTE ]
Oh no, not all of Europe. Sweden has the US rule also. And we don't need to show a cone while motorsailing with only mainsail up.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well that explains a lot. I noticed that no one in Sweden seems to use anchor lights, even in crowded anchorages, and I couldn't understand why. My boat didn't come with one, but after nearly getting run into by a motorboat when anchored (and rafted up next to a 40'er) I promptly fitted one.

 

[jenku]

I think the Swedish rule is because it almost never gets really dark up here during the summer. Still I agree there are times when they can be useful. I recently bought one of those garden lamps that do charge themselves via small solar panels during the day and automatically switch on when it gets dark. Anybody tried those on a boat?

 

[MarkJohnson12345]

I have seen those on a boat on a mooring in Saundersfoot.

A good idea, but the light intensity was very low, probably only visidble from three hundred yards. It was also low on the boat, an anchor light does need to be up high(??) at least head height from the deck, and needs to be bright.

Otherwise only blame yourself if things go bump in the night!!

 

[SvenglishTommy]

Yes it hardly gets dark at all at the moment, but it does start getting darker towards the end of August when there can still be quite a few boats out on the Archipelago. Also, a lot of boats moor up to the rocks, so hitting one amounts to the same thing as crashing into the land.

I'm sure a couple of people on here have mentioned using automatic solar lamps, and if the weather stays like this it would sure get plenty of power /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

 

[Mirelle]

There is a case, in US law, where a bridge was found alone to blame,

when hit by a ship, because the bridge was not showing the correct lights.

I am not making this up.

 

[VicS]

I've thougt about one of these garden lights and apart from being of low intensity it stikes me that it has to the out in the sun (or daylight at least) all day to charge up. It will be no use keeping it stowed away all day and getting it out in the evening and expecting it to work.

 

[michael_w]

The other problem with the garden solar jobbies is that the light they give out looks just like a sodium street light at 5 miles distance.

 

[Tisme]

[ QUOTE ]
[ Many boats no longer carry white flares - I crewed on a recent Fastnet Race where the owner, when asked about the RORC 'mandatory' white flares prior to a night watch, replied "What do you want one of them for?"

[/ QUOTE ]

Most boats don't carry them now because Pains Wessex has recalled them all. I wonder if there is any news on that?

 

[Anonymous]

There's a 13m yacht moored alongside me here in San Antonio and he has one of those solar garden things lashed onto his anchor ball. It is useless...you can hardly make out the light. We often go ashore in the evenings and come back well after dark. The yachts with 'proper' mast-head anchor lights are the easiest to see by a very good margin. There are a couple of hurricane lamps and they come a poor second. Then there are the LED things and they are very poor. Frankly, the LED and solar ones are not much better than nothing at all though give them their due...80% don't show anything!

 

[Tisme]

[ QUOTE ]
The yachts with 'proper' mast-head anchor lights are the easiest to see by a very good margin.

[/ QUOTE ]

...and yet people keep saying that it's difficult to see masthead lights. I can never understand this.

In a close quarters situation it makes sense, but most of the time you will be approaching from afar and even at quarter of a mile distance a masthead light should be clearly visible, unless you have tunnel vision. At 50 metres distance you might have to raise your eyes, but not that much. In any event you should have seen the light already and be keeping an eye on the boat.

Unless your boat is Mirabella, in which case your mast is a danger to low flying aircraft, I don't think it's a problem. I could work out the trigonometry of it all but life's too short.

I reckon that a good masthead light is probably better than a poor light in the fore triangle. But the best solution is surely to use the appropriate light for the situation you find yourself in?

I know the argument about shore lights, but they can also be a problem when they are low and distant (in which case a mast head light will be better), so it's swings and roundabouts.

Masthead lights on a boat underway in harbour are another matter altogether. Usually the boat will be motoring anyway so the deck lights should be on. If the boat is sailing the deck lights can be used anyway.

All IMHO!

 

[jenku]

Oh, well. We'll see how it turns out this summer. I do have a hurricane lamp as well, but as nobody else shows anchor lights I probably only will attract attention and get a lot of late incoming boats anchored too near.... The garden lamp was very cheap though and I plan to have it on the boat all the time. It came with a small pole, to stick it in the ground I suppose, which fits an old unused antenna socket perfectly so I sits a bit above deck level.

And yes, I also do moor to rocks a lot, but sometime I swing, especially when single handed. Mooring to rocks single handed is a bit tricky.

Tommy: where in the archipelago are you? Do you have your own boat here?

 

[Krusty]

Re: Anchor lights - risks of not showing correct lights Re Tisme

Masthead-located anchor lights the easiest to see? Not always; in some situations, hardly ever! When the anchorage is close to a waterfront backed by a town built up a hillside, a common situation, masthead lights can be almost impossible to distinguish from house porch-lights!
I use an all-round white either at the masthead (when backgrounds are dark or another vessel may approach from any direction) or hanging from the backstay (to ensure the sector obscured by the mast is minimal): sometimes BOTH!

 

[Tisme]

Re: Anchor lights - risks of not showing correct lights Re Tisme

Exactly the point I was making and I couldn't agree more. That's why I said "But the best solution is surely to use the appropriate light for the situation you find yourself in?"

 

[Anonymous]

Yes, there are special cases and you are always free to add lights if you think it is appropriate. Large ships are actually required to light their deck lights as well as the mandatory lights, which is why when you approach large anchorages (e.g. the one off Le Harvre) at night it looks as though you are approaching central London. Indeed, it is impossible to work out what is going on unless you use the radar to pick your way through, especially when there are other vessels passing through at the same time as yourself. Sometimes too much light confuses the viewer.

However, aside from making sure you are visible, it is essential to ensure that if anyone does hit you, you are not found guilty of failing to display the required lights, or you might well end up paying a very large bill.