Anchor drag theory

billyfish

billyfish

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Twice this year I have draged the hook in Newtown Creek . Never before. and I hear similar tales from other folk ! Now I live and work in the countryside and know what happens if you overwork the ground, especially when wet....I think the number of anchors used in the creek has stirred it up to become very sloppy and loose...thoughts please.
 
WoodyP said:
I would be worried about the affect on the eel grass and seahorses. Seriously, it's so popular that I think there should be moorings laid, and charges levied to cover the cost and no more.
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Don't think that there is eel grass or seahorses in Newtown. I haven't been there for a few years but don't remember having a problem with anchoring. I do wonder people are using anough scope to allow for HW though.
 
Newtown Creek has a muddy bottom, I never had any problems with dragging, there but i am aware of others having dragged their anchors. The problem with Newtown Creek is that there is a lot of weed in the upper reaches and once it blocked the dinghy outboard water intake causing it to overheat. Lovely part of the Solent.
 
billyfish said:
Twice this year I have draged the hook in Newtown Creek . Never before. and I hear similar tales from other folk ! Now I live and work in the countryside and know what happens if you overwork the ground, especially when wet....I think the number of anchors used in the creek has stirred it up to become very sloppy and loose...thoughts please.
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I’ve wondered that but in many Mediterranean ports the boats are ties to the quay by the stern and they anchor the bow. It means that the ground is used continuously forever and yet must still hold firm in a storm
 
Boathook said:
Don't think that there is eel grass or seahorses in Newtown. I haven't been there for a few years but don't remember having a problem with anchoring. I do wonder people are using anough scope to allow for HW though.
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Sorry, that was tongue firmly in cheek.
 
I share your thinking and experience. I changed anchor specifically to improve anchoring in Newtown Creek.
 
If you go to the Fortress website they have a report on their testing in the Chesapeake a couple of years ago.

Basically in the thin soupy muds most anchors develop no more hold than a lump of lead. The only anchors to show merit are really a Danforth and Fortress and if you look at the data then you need a Fortress (or Danforth) one size bigger than recommended.

No-one knows quite why other anchors are so poor - but the suggestion is that all other anchors require a firm seabed to allow them to roll to the correct setting position. For example a Rocna needs to roll on it roll bar. If the mud is so soft that the roll bar sinks in then the anchor will never self right.

We carry a Spade and Excel as our primaries - hard mud, sand etc of a 15kg size (except ours are half that as they are aluminium) and a pretty massive FX 37 for slushy mud, set at 45 degrees. We also carry a FX 16 set at 30 degrees for sand etc (you might call it a kedge).

I have tried our Excel in slushy mud and its a waste of time - just another anchor to clean. For reliability a Fortress.

As an aside - I find that the correct sized Fortress, in our case a FX 23, is too big to set deeply, the stock always protrudes - all ready to self trip in a change of tide. We actually carry the FX 16 because we can bury it and it is thus a safe anchor to use as a primary in sand and heavy mud.

The reason for the overabundance of anchors is that we often anchor in a 'V' to quell veering - and people do lose anchors and we thus have back up. All our anchors are aluminium. We have been testing the Viking (and are going to do some more testing tomorrow - lovely weather here and the 'right' tides). I am impressed and we look to add Viking 10 to our quiver of anchors, we may retire one of our anchors - possibly the FX 16.

All our anchors are stored with a Crosby G209a shackle already in the anchor shank slot (actually we have found a couple of other sources for shackles of similar quality - I'll post about them some time later, time poor).

Do not, ever, get the idea that there is one perfect anchor. There is something wrong with all of them, too expensive, not stocked near you, will not fit on your bow roller, shank is too long and it fouls the windlass - and then the anchor characteristics, does not work in weed, mud, very hard seabeds , does not engage reliably etc etc. The problem of soupy mud is very specific - we have such muds in Australia. Many locations don't have such stuff and people will not understand what I am talking about (maybe in the Med and Caribbean it is alien - its the sort of location where they farm oysters (Chesapeake, muds round Sydney etc). Weed is a different problem - it gets wrapped round the base of the shank and stops the fluke burying itself - you need an anchor that penetrates and engages quickly, sharp toe, long narrow fluke, Excel, Kobra - no roll bar.

Constant anchoring in muds that do not settle quickly (sand resettles quite quickly (being dense and all inorganic) but it does not need lots of anchoring for mud to be soupy - it looks like old engine oil and often smells (and will damage your galvanising - best stay clear of such places). Muds can be anaerobic and host organisms that secrete sulphurous product. The muds are acidic and smell, rotten eggs. The galvanising is dissolved by the acdity - you know when it happens (apart from the cleaning and smell) - your chain goes black. Its a real problem for oyster farms, their chains dissolve, sewage works and old harbours with infrequent use (aeration).

Take care, stay safe

Jonathan
 
billyfish said:
Twice this year I have draged the hook in Newtown Creek . Never before. and I hear similar tales from other folk ! Now I live and work in the countryside and know what happens if you overwork the ground, especially when wet....I think the number of anchors used in the creek has stirred it up to become very sloppy and loose...thoughts please.
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Well that is a theory that means you can blame others for your anchor failure ol'will
 
We anchored in a Greek sandy bay Monday night , woken up at 0130 by the sound of a 45 ft Lagoon banging on my bow !
two more boats had dragged and when I looked at their {charter boat ) anchors they looked like absolute minimum size Delta,s
Is this common , fitting smallest possible anchors tomcharter boats ?
 
Would suggest it is not the size of the anchor that is the problem but the inability of the skipper to set it properly. The size of anchor fitted as standard is more than adequate to hold in those sort of conditions if properly set.
 
billyfish said:
Twice this year I have draged the hook in Newtown Creek . Never before. and I hear similar tales from other folk ! . . .

I think the number of anchors used in the creek has stirred it up to become very sloppy and loose...thoughts please.
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Newtown Creek has been a very popular anchorage for a very long time. I find it difficult to believe that it wasn't getting (too) stirred up before, and it is this year.
 
Not enough info to say anything.

I have dove on an anchor that dragged when they fell into the drag furow of a resent visitor. Unusual, but not impossible. We have a few places around here where people will plow and plow for 10-20 minutes, trying to power set anchors. The bottom looks like it was plowed by a drunken horse.
 
The normal problem in Newtown is getting the anchor up out of the sticky mud. However there are patches such as the east side of Clamerkin where there is a layer of weed over the mud and this may cause difficulties in setting the anchor. This series of videos youtube.com/watch?v=3AqLGV56FNE gives a good idea of the River for those not familiar with it.
 
Probably training school skippers not taught how to anchor stern to..

Tranona said:
Would suggest it is not the size of the anchor that is the problem but the inability of the skipper to set it properly. The size of anchor fitted as standard is more than adequate to hold in those sort of conditions if properly set.
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Tranona said:
Would suggest it is not the size of the anchor that is the problem but the inability of the skipper to set it properly. The size of anchor fitted as standard is more than adequate to hold in those sort of conditions if properly set.
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I'd be inclined to agree with this.

If you think about it there are only two possible reasons for anchoring problems: poor technique and/or poor equipment.
 
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