Mirelle
N/A
I've seen that done, regularly, by fishing boats in the South China Sea.
Course, a fishing boat is not worried about stowing a truck tyre.
Course, a fishing boat is not worried about stowing a truck tyre.
Anchor chains
- Thread starter bilbobaggins
- Start date
bilbobaggins
N/A
I'm not all that bothered, except that - for some some boats and in some conditions - the idea makes some sense.
It's the kind of thing that one tucks away, for the one circumstance in 30 years where it fits exactly.
That's seamanship.
That's what we're here for.....
/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
( oh, [--word removed--], maybe I'm wrong! )
Bu33er you, snot-wipe of an arbitrator! The word that my grandfather - who fought at the Battle of Jutland - had in mind was '[--word removed--]! ) What else did you think you could contribute....?
What kind of wazzock society have I unwittingly bred? And that I could still strangle at birth.....
/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
It's the kind of thing that one tucks away, for the one circumstance in 30 years where it fits exactly.
That's seamanship.
That's what we're here for.....
/forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif
( oh, [--word removed--], maybe I'm wrong! )
Bu33er you, snot-wipe of an arbitrator! The word that my grandfather - who fought at the Battle of Jutland - had in mind was '[--word removed--]! ) What else did you think you could contribute....?
What kind of wazzock society have I unwittingly bred? And that I could still strangle at birth.....
/forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif
GMac
Well-Known Member
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no doubt that purely for effectivness, bigger is better!
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Or using a longer length.
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With STRONG WINDS the catenary given by the chain is close to nothing.
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All depends on size and length of chain. If downsizing by using a higher grade like a G4 or above you’re probably quite right. Strangely this would also increase the chances of shock loads, which are more of a potential problem with the higher-grade chains.
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Interesting point from the world of big boats - above around 20mm chain it is common to go for stud link chain instead of the common short link in order to get more weight while using the same size windlass.
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Actually they use Stud links for the increased Proof Loads they have so they can carry lighter chains and use smaller gear. Size for size Stud link chains of U1 or U2 (the most common by far) grades have lower break loads than most common chains like the EN818-3 standard.
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Stud link is altogether better stuff. Years ago, Simpson Lawrence made it in sizes down to 7/16" (say 11.5mm) but nobody does so now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Heavier and lower break loads makes it better?? Hmmm…. One or 2 still make Stud link down to 12.5mm but it is fading away.
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Third, if you're joining chain, join it with a welded link, not just the type with studded rivets - they're only about 30% the strength of the basic chain.
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Complete rubbish if talking gear made by reputable manufacturers. The good ones are a G4 or G5 fitting, most chains used in anchoring are only a G3.
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But if "Hylas" had been following this forum over past years, he would have known that I have been campaigning about inadequate chain joining shackles for a very long time.
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There are many good fittings out there. Stop shopping on price and look around.
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Ah, come on. Be tolerant There's no need for them to change.
If their method works for them, that's fine. It's just that their techniques may not apply to those who anchor in different boats, in different conditions, with different needs (light and easy anchor handling maybe).
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One very sensible comment that is 100% correct.
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Do not make the mistake of assuming that you can scale things.
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A common mistake, which has seen a few good cock-ups. Things don’t scale at all well.
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Chain has very variable strength, depending on joins and quality of manufacture, but it would be reasonable to say that 8mm chain should match 20mm nylon. Many would dispute this, offering larger or smaller rope diameters. Fine.
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I don’t think anyone would disagree except for most reputable manufacturers. 8mm chain to 14mm rope is a good match but only when talking strength, fitting to winches and for general handling.
Like Hylas I tried hard not too but just had to pop in.
no doubt that purely for effectivness, bigger is better!
[/ QUOTE ]
Or using a longer length.
[ QUOTE ]
With STRONG WINDS the catenary given by the chain is close to nothing.
[/ QUOTE ]
All depends on size and length of chain. If downsizing by using a higher grade like a G4 or above you’re probably quite right. Strangely this would also increase the chances of shock loads, which are more of a potential problem with the higher-grade chains.
[ QUOTE ]
Interesting point from the world of big boats - above around 20mm chain it is common to go for stud link chain instead of the common short link in order to get more weight while using the same size windlass.
[/ QUOTE ]
Actually they use Stud links for the increased Proof Loads they have so they can carry lighter chains and use smaller gear. Size for size Stud link chains of U1 or U2 (the most common by far) grades have lower break loads than most common chains like the EN818-3 standard.
[ QUOTE ]
Stud link is altogether better stuff. Years ago, Simpson Lawrence made it in sizes down to 7/16" (say 11.5mm) but nobody does so now.
[/ QUOTE ]
Heavier and lower break loads makes it better?? Hmmm…. One or 2 still make Stud link down to 12.5mm but it is fading away.
[ QUOTE ]
Third, if you're joining chain, join it with a welded link, not just the type with studded rivets - they're only about 30% the strength of the basic chain.
[/ QUOTE ]
Complete rubbish if talking gear made by reputable manufacturers. The good ones are a G4 or G5 fitting, most chains used in anchoring are only a G3.
[ QUOTE ]
But if "Hylas" had been following this forum over past years, he would have known that I have been campaigning about inadequate chain joining shackles for a very long time.
[/ QUOTE ]
There are many good fittings out there. Stop shopping on price and look around.
[ QUOTE ]
Ah, come on. Be tolerant There's no need for them to change.
If their method works for them, that's fine. It's just that their techniques may not apply to those who anchor in different boats, in different conditions, with different needs (light and easy anchor handling maybe).
[/ QUOTE ]
One very sensible comment that is 100% correct.
[ QUOTE ]
Do not make the mistake of assuming that you can scale things.
[/ QUOTE ]
A common mistake, which has seen a few good cock-ups. Things don’t scale at all well.
[ QUOTE ]
Chain has very variable strength, depending on joins and quality of manufacture, but it would be reasonable to say that 8mm chain should match 20mm nylon. Many would dispute this, offering larger or smaller rope diameters. Fine.
[/ QUOTE ]
I don’t think anyone would disagree except for most reputable manufacturers. 8mm chain to 14mm rope is a good match but only when talking strength, fitting to winches and for general handling.
Like Hylas I tried hard not too but just had to pop in.
jimbaerselman
Well-Known Member
Nice list of comments.
You're right about reputable chain manufacturers. The difficulty is that in real life many of us either inherit chain from a previous owner, or buy on price, or it's supplied by a price concious yacht builder as part of the kit. And as for joining links, most chandlers only seem to carry cheap hammered rivet types, rather than proper join links.
When I found two rivet links in the chain which came with the boat, my easy solution was welding, hoping that the heating didn't cause any strength loss. Dreamer? Maybe . . .
Thanks for the correction on rope size to match chain. I checked, and mine was actually 16mm octoplait to 8mm link. Memory . . . age . . .
You're right about reputable chain manufacturers. The difficulty is that in real life many of us either inherit chain from a previous owner, or buy on price, or it's supplied by a price concious yacht builder as part of the kit. And as for joining links, most chandlers only seem to carry cheap hammered rivet types, rather than proper join links.
When I found two rivet links in the chain which came with the boat, my easy solution was welding, hoping that the heating didn't cause any strength loss. Dreamer? Maybe . . .
Thanks for the correction on rope size to match chain. I checked, and mine was actually 16mm octoplait to 8mm link. Memory . . . age . . .
hylass
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
And as for joining links, most chandlers only seem to carry cheap hammered rivet types, rather than proper join links.
[/ QUOTE ]
And as for joining links, most chandlers only seem to carry cheap hammered rivet types, rather than proper join links.
[/ QUOTE ]
GMac
Well-Known Member
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Don't use one of those chinese made you show Alain, use a good Crosby like I have /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
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Thanks for the correction on rope size to match chain. I checked, and mine was actually 16mm octoplait to 8mm link
[/ QUOTE ]
Nothing wrong with 16 either. Good to go up a size sometimes if using your rode real hard or get wear issues.
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Memory . . . age . . .
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Tell me about it. I'm fading fast as well so hurry up and get next week over with, I want to commit some yachting /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Don't use one of those chinese made you show Alain, use a good Crosby like I have /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the correction on rope size to match chain. I checked, and mine was actually 16mm octoplait to 8mm link
[/ QUOTE ]
Nothing wrong with 16 either. Good to go up a size sometimes if using your rode real hard or get wear issues.
[ QUOTE ]
Memory . . . age . . .
[/ QUOTE ]
Tell me about it. I'm fading fast as well so hurry up and get next week over with, I want to commit some yachting /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
hylass
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Don't use one of those chinese made you show Alain, use a good Crosby like I have /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Fully agree with you GMac!.. As you are an Expert, you will not buy that..
But, we are not experts.. try to go to nearly all Shipchandlers and ask for "somthin.." to repare your chain and look what they will give you.. Promising you that it will be ever stronger than your chain..
Does anyone try to ask for a "Crosby" "C" link?? In which chandlery will they be available??
Don't use one of those chinese made you show Alain, use a good Crosby like I have /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
[/ QUOTE ]
Fully agree with you GMac!.. As you are an Expert, you will not buy that..
But, we are not experts.. try to go to nearly all Shipchandlers and ask for "somthin.." to repare your chain and look what they will give you.. Promising you that it will be ever stronger than your chain..
Does anyone try to ask for a "Crosby" "C" link?? In which chandlery will they be available??
GMac
Well-Known Member
Yes you're right there Alain. Sadly I think a lot of chandlers seem to know more about profit margins than the products they sell.
We spend a lot of time replacing assorted equipment that was brought as "It was a sharp price" rather than the right gear for the job. I don't know how to get around this for the average shopper.
We spend a lot of time replacing assorted equipment that was brought as "It was a sharp price" rather than the right gear for the job. I don't know how to get around this for the average shopper.