Anchor chain or chain, warp combination ?

T

tsekul

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Hi There,

What are peoples thoughts on chain or chain and warp. We are planning visiting the scillies next year and we currently only have chain and warp. As we intend mainly using the anchor, should we really be looking at all chain or is our current setup fine ?

Thinking of getting a modern type anchor probably a manson as I think the holding will be better than cqr we currently have. We have a Westerly gk29 so its not an overly heavy boat. I would feel safer with all chain I think, but see no reason why the current setup would not be fine.

Thanks in advance
T
 
tsekul said:
Hi There,

What are peoples thoughts on chain or chain and warp. We are planning visiting the scillies next year and we currently only have chain and warp. As we intend mainly using the anchor, should we really be looking at all chain or is our current setup fine ?

Thinking of getting a modern type anchor probably a manson as I think the holding will be better than cqr we currently have. We have a Westerly gk29 so its not an overly heavy boat. I would feel safer with all chain I think, but see no reason why the current setup would not be fine.

Thanks in advance
T
Click to expand...

Windlass? !!!
 
I think you have to adapt your gear to your boat and your preferences. We sailed happily with warp/chain on our Sadler 29 for many years. The only problem we encountered was the tendency for the warp to make a turn round the keel, which I overcame by lowering a weight a couple of metres.

If holding is a concern, a modern anchor with or without an angel should allow you to retain the advantage of lighter tackle.
 
I s'pose there will be flurry of "Well, it all depends....."

Your boat has relatively high freeboard/windage for its 6900lb weight IMHO. You don't mention what your 'current setup' is.... How much chain? Of what spec? Same thing re your warp.... And your anchor?

The more attractive anchorages in the Isles of Scilly - St Helens Pool, The Cove, Porth Conger, New Grimsby Sound, Watermill Cove, St Martins Bay.... are mostly reasonably shallow, in sand, and one should be able to manage with say 12 metres of robust chain and 30-odd metres of robust warp.

Except when there are lots of others in the same anchorage..... and the wind picks up.

You do need, of course, a main anchor that's well up to the job. A Solent Lunch Hook could well spoil your overnight - and your no-claims bonus. Don't be fazed by the marketing wonks re 'new generation anchors'. Yes, most of them do a better job than predecessors BUT generations of yotties have anchored quite effectively in the Isles of Scilly, year after year, using a CQR and managed quite well enough to come back again.... year after year.

This is one of the areas where 'robust ground tackle' is warranted.

Enjoi!
 
There has been some grand rows on this topic.

I always feel it is a bit of a false dichotomy because, in the end, most of us rely on chain and warp to some extent. I like to have at least 45m of chain, which gives all chain in shallow places, in reasonably benign conditions. It is quick to self stow for the singlehander and is easy and, generally, clean to handle. Once quickly stowed it is ready for instant re-use and it does not bring a lot of water inboard.
Using chain means the boat will not wander in a large arc in light conditions. When it really blows and in deep water the advantages of warp begin to kick in.

For your proposed trip there is not particular reason to change what you have, provided you have been happy in the past.
 
Modern thinking is that all chain doesn't make you any more secure, the catenary is all pulled out of it more easily than we imagine, and then its lack of stretch means that greater loads are applied to jerk the anchor out. Chain is no stronger than properly-sized rope (8mm G40 chain 40kN, 14mm octoplait nylon 47kN). It's very heavy, and usually stored in the worst possible place for extra weight.

The main benefit is that it's largely immune from chafe, and its drag on the bottom when not loaded means you move around less in light conditions.

Nevertheless, most of us tend to feel more secure with lots of heavy chain out. I know I do, and that's why when we bought Ariam I installed 60m of it together with a 20kg Spade anchor.

Sadly, this has proven to be a mistake. The bow of the boat is now seriously overweight, and doesn't rise properly to the seas. We also have a beard of weed where the water is above the antifoul when moored. So this winter I will be removing most of the chain, leaving only 15 or 20 metres, and replacing it with rope. The reason I'm keeping so little is so that I can still have the big anchor, which I think is more important than having lots of chain just to feel good in some indefinable way.

I think you'll be fine on rope, and if you don't have a windlass you may regret all-chain unless you only anchor in very shallow water. A decent anchor is the important part.

Pete
 
When I had a GK29, which does not have an opening anchor locker, I felt that feeding rope down the hawse pipe was very tedious. For that reason I preferred all chain. Presumably you are used to the current rode configuration and are happy with it?
 
Ok, we have 20M chain and 30M warp. Not sure of the weight of the cqr but looks pretty heavy. barely fits in the bow roller.

Don't do a lot of Anchoring at the moment but we will be drilling it a lot before we go. I think a few lunches in St. Mawes from Mylor :)
 
We don't have the Anchor attached to the chain most of the time as it gets in the way of the foil ( sits in a trug down below with a shackle ready if its needed in an emergency) as we were mostly racing last season, hope to do more cruising next season so want to get this sorted.

Oh yes I remember! when its in the bow roller you cant get the pin through the roller as its to big!

thanks for all the responses.
 
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tsekul said:
Oh yes I remember! when its in the bow roller you cant get the pin through the roller as its too big!
Click to expand...

You'll be aware that Trelissick Creek/Channals is a mucho favourito anchorage a mile above Mylor - but no pub, just the cream teas up at the big house.

And recalling a 'temporary' fix for your problem with the pin, which lasted a decade on a Rival 34..... Simply a pair of s/s strip shackles, the legs of each long enuff to fit down over over each of the cheeks of the plate bow fairlead, with the captive pins through the holes, and joined over the top of the anchor by a length of light spare Dyneema cord. Three loose 'turns', if I recall, then bound with some self-amalgamating tape. Easy to release on one side, and re-secure when the anchor is 'home'.

After a couple of seasons, the Dyneema cord was replaced by a 'same-length' 4mm s/s wire with a pair of small hard eyes. It's still there.
 
tsekul said:
Ok, we have 20M chain and 30M warp. Not sure of the weight of the cqr but looks pretty heavy. barely fits in the bow roller.

Don't do a lot of Anchoring at the moment but we will be drilling it a lot before we go. I think a few lunches in St. Mawes from Mylor :)
Click to expand...

A "Proper" CQR has its weight very clearly marked on it. A "Proper" CQR works well. Some of the copy ones are less successful.
 
NormanS said:
A "Proper" CQR has its weight very clearly marked on it. A "Proper" CQR works well. Some of the copy ones are less successful.
Click to expand...

A cast iron version that i took these pix of
2012-08-24145906.jpg

2012-08-24130139.jpg
 
Don't let them get your 'knickers in a twist'. Lots of us anchor perfectly satisfactorily, each year, in the Isles of Scilly. There's no drama, with a modicum of ordinary seamanship.

Just please make sure your 'anchor tackle' is up to the job. No shortcuts. That's it.....
 
On my 24 footer, I sleep soundly at anchor with 17m of 8mm chain and plenty of 14mm octoplait and a 10Kg Delta, which is a size bigger than recommended.

Without a windlass, there's a limit to the amount of weight you can pull up. I'd rather put the weight in the anchor and have a lighter rode so I can still pull it up.

The other advantage of a mix is that you get a bit of weight down with the chain, but you've got a bit of elasticity over the sharp end to absorb shocks. Also, chain in the roller is noisy. Both problems can be overcome with a snubber but, if it's rope over the bow, you don't need to.

Whatever you go for, if you don't dig the hook in properly, it will let you down - more accurately, you've let it down. My technique - Not the only one, but it works for me, is to choose my point, thinking about the depth, wind & current, now and later, and decide where I want the anchor. I get out the scope I want and make off as I approach, bringing the boat to a stop in relation to the bottom as I get to my chosen point, then lower away until the anchor's on the bottom. I then let the boat fall away downwind/tide and pay out the scope so it's lying straight on the bottom, helping out with a bit of slow astern, if needed, until the boat stops and the rode goes taut, which should only be a a metre or two after I've lpaid everything out. Now I increase the revs gently to dig it in. Neutral, check I'm where I want to be, ball up, engine off, kettle on/beer open. Over the next hour or so I keep an eye on things to make sure we aren't moving, but we never are if things went to plan.

Of course, it doesn't always work like that. My record was 5 tries, but that was in Newtown creek, where the bottom's so ploughed up, you can struggle to to get a grip.
 
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tsekul said:
Hi There,

What are peoples thoughts on chain or chain and warp. We are planning visiting the scillies next year and we currently only have chain and warp. As we intend mainly using the anchor, should we really be looking at all chain or is our current setup fine ?

Thinking of getting a modern type anchor probably a manson as I think the holding will be better than cqr we currently have. We have a Westerly gk29 so its not an overly heavy boat. I would feel safer with all chain I think, but see no reason why the current setup would not be fine.

Thanks in advance
T
Click to expand...

Havong started on this boat with a CQR and now using a manson, I can vouch that the manson digs in far better in hard sand as in Ilfracombe for example. Only disadvantage is that the roll bar can make it hard to stow in the anchor roller. Check you have the clearance.

As for rope / chain, the answer to that is easy. You need chain on the bit nearest the anchor because of abrasion on the sea bed and the risk of junk. For reasonable weather all chain will keep you in a smaller circle and use up less anchoring room. In a real blow with room to swing you need a decent length of nylon rope to provide elasticity. Chain only works whilst there is a catenary - get it bar taut and the jerks in a gale will be horrendous. A 2 foot nylon snubber is simply not enough. Sailing in the same area of the south west / bristol channel, I carry 50 metres of chain and 50 metres of nylon octoplait.
 
Since I am converting to rope, as described above, having previously always used chain, what are people's thoughts on using a kellet to provide a little drag on the bottom and avoid drifting around too much in light conditions?

Pete
 
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